Nurses to ballot for strike action following their rejection of Government pay proposals


ruman

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Comments like this only go to prove that most people who criticise frontline staff in our hospitals don't have a clue. Most nurses are leaving from ward posts because they simply cannot take the stress and overwork. My sister works in a specialist area - not A&E - and often gets home from work late with her lunch still in her bag, uneaten. You really don't know the actual situation, however, when the number of nurses working is finally reduced to the point where the hospitals can no longer cope reality will dawn.
I fear you've misunderstood my point or perhaps it was poorly worded.
Many nursing jobs are very stressful and perhaps these nurses are underpaid given the work they do. Conversely other nursing areas are not difficult or stressful. Despite this their Union effectively does not allow differing wage levels. Clearly nurses in the most stressful areas where there is a shortage should be paid more then nursing jobs that are less stressful and where there is no shortage.

Not sure why you are jumping down my throat, are you suggesting every single nurse has as equally stressful a job as your sister ?
 

wombat

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In fairness it does state there does appear to be a problem in certain areas.
That was why specialist allowances were recommended but the unions are using specific problems to look for across the board rises.
 

making waves

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Why do nurses not demand a proper 8hr shift pattern which would be healthier for them and safer for patients?
An 8 hour shift would not be safer for patients - the more handovers and the more staff dealing with a patient the greater the likelihood of an error being made.

Medical staff know that long shifts are difficult - but they also know and accept that they are safer for patients.
 

FunkyBoogaloo

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All PS pay increases should be frozen (and in some cases PS pay should be reduced) until the private sector gets a commensurate increase.

I, for one, am sick and tired of funding a health system that I cannot afford to use.
 

FunkyBoogaloo

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Actually, nurses have a bad deal because they have never been 'at it'. Because they were under the cosh of religious orders and as a result of their strong sense of duty of care, they have been taken advantage of and have never been treated fairly. If they had gone on strike, or even threatened strike, as often as teachers did then they would now have better pay and conditions. And BTW re your plucked out of thin air €55,000, my sister is a nurse with almost 30 years' experience and numerous qualifications and she earns €47,000.
Why the f.u.c.k am I contributing to your sister's €47,000 a year salary when I cannot afford to use the Health system?

There is a fundamental disconnect. Reduce her level of pay or increase mine. At some point something has got to give.
 

Massey

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Why the f.u.c.k am I contributing to your sister's €47,000 a year salary when I cannot afford to use the Health system?

There is a fundamental disconnect. Reduce her level of pay or increase mine. At some point something has got to give.
You could always emigrate, like so many doctors and nurses do?
 

Massey

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Why do nurses not demand a proper 8hr shift pattern which would be healthier for them and safer for patients?
So 3 X 9 hour shifts , instead of 2 X 13 - to cover 24 hours, given .5 hours at beginning and end of each shift for clinical handover. - so that would mean an extra hour to be paid or 9 weeks pay per year.

It could be done , but would cost more.
 
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ruman

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You could always emigrate, like so many doctors and nurses do?
Yes chiefly due to their members and representative bodies blocking both reform and access to consultant posts in order to enrich a select few over the general population. The taxpayer is left funding the huge cost of educating doctors who then emigrate to the US/UK but receives services from poorly vetted medical staff from developing countries who suffer a brain drain.
3rd world services for 1st world taxes as it were.
 

Massey

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Yes chiefly due to their members and representative bodies blocking both reform and access to consultant posts in order to enrich a select few over the general population. The taxpayer is left funding the huge cost of educating doctors who then emigrate to the US/UK but receives services from poorly vetted medical staff from developing countries who suffer a brain drain.
3rd world services for 1st world taxes as it were.
There are 500 empty posts now, not such a good job, Must be because it is so lucrative that have all those empty positions.
Quick solution cut the number of graduates ( one of the highest per capita in the world) and use the money to pay the medics more.
 

Uganda

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Comments like this only go to prove that most people who criticise frontline staff in our hospitals don't have a clue. Most nurses are leaving from ward posts because they simply cannot take the stress and overwork. My sister works in a specialist area - not A&E - and often gets home from work late with her lunch still in her bag, uneaten. You really don't know the actual situation, however, when the number of nurses working is finally reduced to the point where the hospitals can no longer cope reality will dawn.
I have spent more hours than I care to remember in hospitals watching what goes on. Yes, sometimes nurses are very busy, other times it is not busy. I also question why nurses work 3 X 12 hour shifts instead of 5 X 7.5 or so. This practice is prohibited in at least one Australian hospital I am aware of, on grounds of patient safety.

Also I wonder why nurses aides are not permitted here? It wouldn't have anything to do with nurses refusing to allow it, would it?
 

Uganda

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I fear you've misunderstood my point or perhaps it was poorly worded.
Many nursing jobs are very stressful and perhaps these nurses are underpaid given the work they do. Conversely other nursing areas are not difficult or stressful. Despite this their Union effectively does not allow differing wage levels. Clearly nurses in the most stressful areas where there is a shortage should be paid more then nursing jobs that are less stressful and where there is no shortage.

Not sure why you are jumping down my throat, are you suggesting every single nurse has as equally stressful a job as your sister ?
I think the answer to your last question is yes. This is classic vested interest approach. Take one hard pressed individual and hey presto, everyone is like that all the time, every time.
 

Uganda

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An 8 hour shift would not be safer for patients - the more handovers and the more staff dealing with a patient the greater the likelihood of an error being made.

Medical staff know that long shifts are difficult - but they also know and accept that they are safer for patients.
That must e why 12 hour shifts are banned in some hospitals in Australia on grounds of patient safety?
 

Uganda

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Why do people always focus on A&E? Only a small minority of nurses work there (and get paid extra for it). Plenty of cushy numbers up in the wards, handing out pills, eating chocolates, abusing sick leave, and going out for years at a time on full pay having kids.


Average nursing pay (note: not salary) in the HSE ten years ago was €57,000 according to the HSE. There isn't a registered nurse in the country with more than a year under their belt on 30k - if there are any at all (pre recent adjustments, the first point on the nurse scale was €32k plus plenty of extras - even now, after some much needed adjustments, the lowest a registered nurse can earn (and only in their first year) - before extras - is almost €29k.).



LOL, the IN(M)O have been striking or threatening to strike pretty much non stop for the last 15 years! I also don't believe that your sister only earns €47k with 30 years experience - I'd bet that's her headline salary (and at that, she was obviously content sitting on the rank of Staff Nurse, rather than going for promotion) before the various allowances and other gravy train top ups that add on average - according to the unions themselves - 25% to nurses' pay. That puts your sister on likely around €58/59k - just around average pay for nurses.
Absolutely right.

My daughter spent quite a lot of time in crumlin - right up to her leaving cert. In her last year there she was nearly as old as many of the nurses. Their biggest problem at night was deciding what DVDs to watch (my daughter would sit in the nurses station with them watching).

Funny how the inmo never trot out these "stressed" nurses who badly need a pay rise............
 

ruman

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There are 500 empty posts now, not such a good job, Must be because it is so lucrative that have all those empty positions.
Quick solution cut the number of graduates ( one of the highest per capita in the world) and use the money to pay the medics more.
There are vacant position because working conditions are so poor due to the shortage of consultants. Increasing pay wont make a blind bit of difference you may as well take a match to taxpayers money and burn it.
Medics like to compare themselves to US/US doctors and ask for pay rises or say they will all leave. Why we would want to ape such poor healthcare systems as these 2 i have no idea. The solution is clear we need to look to that systems in place in small EU nations. Irish consultants are overpaid in comparison to these.

The narrative that there is lack of spending on health is entirely false. Combined public and private sector per capita in Ireland is the same as in the Netherlands. Yet the Netherlands is ranked No 1 and are ranked no 24 in the European Health index.

1 tier health system (end double jobbing and private sector work), more consultants, better working conditions and lower salaries is the answer.
 

ruman

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I think the answer to your last question is yes. This is classic vested interest approach. Take one hard pressed individual and hey presto, everyone is like that all the time, every time.
The response from FF to Varadakar suggesting we should have staff working at xmas says it all. Paticularly amused at Michael Martin accusing Varadkar of a "cynical ploy" as he makes a cynical ploy to catch the public sector vote.

Realistically given our politicians refusal to tackle the vested interest groups and our subservient media is our best hope a federal europe with berlin overseeing a pan european health service that serves patients rather then HSE managers and whinging consultants ?
 

IDBI0

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Why the f.u.c.k am I contributing to your sister's €47,000 a year salary when I cannot afford to use the Health system?

There is a fundamental disconnect. Reduce her level of pay or increase mine. At some point something has got to give.
Because we have a two tier health system - those who have a very good income enjoy private health care and those who rely entirely on the state for their income (benefits) enjoy free healthcare. And to Hell with those in the middle. This fact has nothing to do with the nurses and doctors and everything to do with the government running the country.
 

making waves

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The narrative that there is lack of spending on health is entirely false. Combined public and private sector per capita in Ireland is the same as in the Netherlands. Yet the Netherlands is ranked No 1 and are ranked no 24 in the European Health index.
The European Health Index is drafted by a right-wing pro-privatisation lobby group - it is pure propaganda.

The Dutch health system is in crisis and has been lurching from crisis to crisis since it was switched to a neo-liberal compulsory insurance system in 2006. In 2013 Holland was spending 11.1% of GDP on health - Ireland was spending 8.1%. Dutch hospitals are going bankrupt on a regular basis - two again last month - and the vulture funds are circulating. On top of that compulsory health insurance in Holland costs €6,000 a year per family - but there are another €5,000 of additional add-ons, exemptions and excesses. Health spending in Holland doubled over the past seven years and compulsory health insurance premiums increased by over 10% last year (a near annual increase).
 

Telstar 62

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An elderly woman with dementia was able to leave an emergency department without supervision
and make her way home by taxi, while wearing no shoes and with an IV tube attached to her.

University Hospital Limerick has launched an investigation into how Margaret Kirkby (80) left the premises.

Those 'hardworking' nurses are always on the ball.....:wink:
 
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