Obamacare Repeal/Replace thread

owedtojoy

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I voted for the candidate who made it a priority to repeal/replace that Act.
The ruling in Federal Court has made that possibility one step closer.
That is a good thing.



I haven't blamed the Democrats. I have blamed the Act. Don't put words in my mouth.
I want to apologize for the word "cowardly" ... it was unfair and inaccurate.

But I do think you were conned. Anyone who discussed Healthcare with Trump has been appalled by his ignorance of the topic.

In essence, you voted for someone who did not give a f**k for your healthcare, and was just banging an election drum. It is clear from Trump's own Tweet, he wants someone else to work on it so he can take credit. Republicans will never pass a fair Healthcare Act because Socialism.

Incidentally, it looks like Democrats will run in 2020 on expansion of Medicare, or something like it.
 


TweetyBird

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I want to apologize for the word "cowardly" ... it was unfair and inaccurate.

But I do think you were conned. Anyone who discussed Healthcare with Trump has been appalled by his ignorance of the topic.

In essence, you voted for someone who did not give a f**k for your healthcare, and was just banging an election drum. It is clear from Trump's own Tweet, he wants someone else to work on it so he can take credit. Republicans will never pass a fair Healthcare Act because Socialism.

Incidentally, it looks like Democrats will run in 2020 on expansion of Medicare, or something like it.
Your prejudice against Trump blinded you to the message, Carlos and plenty of others saw a massive hike and voted for the guy who said he'd change that, make it more affordable v's the lady who was offering no such thing. The old my economy thing got Trump the extra votes he needed. Now what are the Democrats going to do about that for the 2020 election?
 

owedtojoy

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Your prejudice against Trump blinded you to the message, Carlos and plenty of others saw a massive hike and voted for the guy who said he'd change that, make it more affordable v's the lady who was offering no such thing. The old my economy thing got Trump the extra votes he needed. Now what are the Democrats going to do about that for the 2020 election?
And instead of making it "more affordable", Trump tried to demolish the whole lot! And connived with Republicans to turn Medicare into a voucher system.

Anyone who voted for that, should be kicking themselves for how gullible they were.

Incidentally, the gains the Democrats made in Congress this year mainly came from advocacy or defence or improvement of the current Healthcare system, and proposals to expand Medicare. They will be building on that for 2020.

So what is Trump going to go about it? The electorate would be stupid to trust Republicans with Healthcare again. Fool me once ... etc.
 

TweetyBird

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And instead of making it "more affordable", Trump tried to demolish the whole lot! And connived with Republicans to turn Medicare into a voucher system.

Anyone who voted for that, should be kicking themselves for how gullible they were.

Incidentally, the gains the Democrats made in Congress this year mainly came from advocacy or defence or improvement of the current Healthcare system, and proposals to expand Medicare. They will be building on that for 2020.

So what is Trump going to go about it? The electorate would be stupid to trust Republicans with Healthcare again. Fool me once ... etc.
It has been noted in many places that health and other day to day issues, made significant hay in the mid terms, so it makes absolute sense to follow through for the next vote. Also, Republicans will have noted this and will have their own strategy in place to counter.
 

petaljam

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Your prejudice against Trump blinded you to the message, Carlos and plenty of others saw a massive hike and voted for the guy who said he'd change that, make it more affordable v's the lady who was offering no such thing.
Come on, it didn't take genius level IQ to see that it was a purely aspirational (and I'm being kind here) promise with zero practical strategy for how to set about achieving it.

I don't believe that people of normal intelligence and education actually believed that Trump and the a Republican Party were going to set up a universal healthcare system at a significantly lower cost than ACA. It was clear to the blindest of bats that that wasn't going to happen.

IMO they either expected him to dismantle ACA and were happy enough to go back to the previous status quo of millions of uninsured fellow citizens or they had entirely different reasons such as his demagoguery about immigration and the wall etc. I think his evangelical support was mostly down to that sort of thinly disguised racism rather than any belief that he was a fit person to lead the country.

Well, either that or I wildly overestimate the political nous of the average American.

The old my economy thing got Trump the extra votes he needed. Now what are the Democrats going to do about that for the 2020 election?
Yeah, good question. I think they need someone new myself. Pity they missed out on Bernie Sanders in 2016 but I feel he is probably too old for another run in 2020, and the same for Joe Biden. Not so much because they couldn't physically do the job (I've no idea on that) but because I think the same old faces that didn't work in 2016 probably won't work 4 years later. In fact I thought the idea was that Biden was already too old in 2016 when he stood aside for Hillary, or am I misremembering?
 

TweetyBird

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Come on, it didn't take genius level IQ to see that it was a purely aspirational (and I'm being kind here) promise with zero practical strategy for how to set about achieving it.

I don't believe that people of normal intelligence and education actually believed that Trump and the a Republican Party were going to set up a universal healthcare system at a significantly lower cost than ACA. It was clear to the blindest of bats that that wasn't going to happen.

IMO they either expected him to dismantle ACA and were happy enough to go back to the previous status quo of millions of uninsured fellow citizens or they had entirely different reasons such as his demagoguery about immigration and the wall etc. I think his evangelical support was mostly down to that sort of thinly disguised racism rather than any belief that he was a fit person to lead the country.

Well, either that or I wildly overestimate the political nous of the average American.



Yeah, good question. I think they need someone new myself. Pity they missed out on Bernie Sanders in 2016 but I feel he is probably too old for another run in 2020, and the same for Joe Biden. Not so much because they couldn't physically do the job (I've no idea on that) but because I think the same old faces that didn't work in 2016 probably won't work 4 years later. In fact I thought the idea was that Biden was already too old in 2016 when he stood aside for Hillary, or am I misremembering?
You're making the mistake of dismissing the reasons why perfectly rational people voted for Trump above Clinton, and also the Republicans above Democrats in both houses in 2016. The mid terms saw a correction in this. Now given that the incumbent is always at an advantage, Democrats need to build on the mid terms and convince folk as to why they now people should vote their way. Whilst people will focus on the nominee, it is also vital to pick his/her second. Just some thoughts.
 

Mrs. Crotta Cliach

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Come on, it didn't take genius level IQ to see that it was a purely aspirational (and I'm being kind here) promise with zero practical strategy for how to set about achieving it.

I don't believe that people of normal intelligence and education actually believed that Trump and the a Republican Party were going to set up a universal healthcare system at a significantly lower cost than ACA. It was clear to the blindest of bats that that wasn't going to happen.

IMO they either expected him to dismantle ACA and were happy enough to go back to the previous status quo of millions of uninsured fellow citizens or they had entirely different reasons such as his demagoguery about immigration and the wall etc. I think his evangelical support was mostly down to that sort of thinly disguised racism rather than any belief that he was a fit person to lead the country.

Well, either that or I wildly overestimate the political nous of the average American.



Yeah, good question. I think they need someone new myself. Pity they missed out on Bernie Sanders in 2016 but I feel he is probably too old for another run in 2020, and the same for Joe Biden. Not so much because they couldn't physically do the job (I've no idea on that) but because I think the same old faces that didn't work in 2016 probably won't work 4 years later. In fact I thought the idea was that Biden was already too old in 2016 when he stood aside for Hillary, or am I misremembering?
Misremembering I think. Biden had just lost his son and his heart wasn't in it to run, for all that entails. I would like to see Biden for Pres and O'Rourke as veep. That would be a high energy ticket with much wisdom.
 

Carlos Danger

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I want to apologize for the word "cowardly" ... it was unfair and inaccurate.
No need for an apology, owed. I'm a big lad, and so are you. I do appreciate you doing it, though.

But I do think you were conned. Anyone who discussed Healthcare with Trump has been appalled by his ignorance of the topic.
I get that you think I was conned, but he is at least doing something about the ACA.

In essence, you voted for someone who did not give a f**k for your healthcare, and was just banging an election drum. It is clear from Trump's own Tweet, he wants someone else to work on it so he can take credit. Republicans will never pass a fair Healthcare Act because Socialism.
I'd replace socialism with Big Pharma and Big Insurance. Their lobbyists are among the most powerful in DC, and have shown time and again how much influence they can bring to bear on both sides of the aisle.

Incidentally, it looks like Democrats will run in 2020 on expansion of Medicare, or something like it.
That would be a step in the right direction, and would certainly win my vote.
 

owedtojoy

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No need for an apology, owed. I'm a big lad, and so are you. I do appreciate you doing it, though.



I get that you think I was conned, but he is at least doing something about the ACA.



I'd replace socialism with Big Pharma and Big Insurance. Their lobbyists are among the most powerful in DC, and have shown time and again how much influence they can bring to bear on both sides of the aisle.



That would be a step in the right direction, and would certainly win my vote.
Ok, I understand where you are coming from. Two comments.

I'd replace socialism with Big Pharma and Big Insurance. Their lobbyists are among the most powerful in DC, and have shown time and again how much influence they can bring to bear on both sides of the aisle.
Given the composition of the Congress in 2008, the ACA as passed was the only one possible. Of course, Democrats will now admit they missed an opportunity to do something more radical .... but a good number of Democrat Congressmen were Blue Dogs from fairly Red Districts, and would not support a public option. So the Obama team copied Republican Mitt Romney's template from Massachusetts as the least worst alternative.

And those Blue Dogs were right because they lost their seats in 2010 when The Tea Party savaged them for "exploding the deficit" with expensive Healthcare. The ACA was the best that could be done about Healthcare in 2008 - and, no, Democrats don't love it BUT, since Trump took office, Americans now favour the ACA by 54% - 46%.


[Trump] is at least doing something about the ACA.
Yes, trying to destroy it, and health insurance for millions of Americans. Not a single improvement proposal emanated from the Trump White House or the Congressional GOP that would expand on the number insured. And they lie consistently about covering pre-existing conditions. As long as Obamacare exists, it can be modified/ reformed/ built upon.

By it own objectives, to reduce the number of Americans uninsured for health, it has been a success. A success Trump wants to turn into failure.



Obamacare Is Now Stable and Providing Millions With Health Coverage Mother Jones

Republicans are messing with Healthcare at their own peril.
 

petaljam

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You're making the mistake of dismissing the reasons why perfectly rational people voted for Trump above Clinton, and also the Republicans above Democrats in both houses in 2016. The mid terms saw a correction in this. Now given that the incumbent is always at an advantage, Democrats need to build on the mid terms and convince folk as to why they now people should vote their way. Whilst people will focus on the nominee, it is also vital to pick his/her second. Just some thoughts.
Not sure what you mean. Should I pretend to think it wasn't obvious to a disinterested outsider that Trump was a liar and a conman? Suck in my teeth and feign shock - who could possibly have guessed? :rolleyes:

Not like nobody said it or anything so let's not pretend now - those people who went for him anyway knew he was a scumbag and they didn't really care.

And it wasn't just against Clinton, I'd also say that concerning the primaries when Trump got the place as GOP candidate over the other contenders. The others weren't claiming they'd leave ACA untouched either, and yet Trump won there before he was up against Clinton.

If you vote for an amoral crook knowing what he is, that says something about you, IMO.
 

Wagmore

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Come on, it didn't take genius level IQ to see that it was a purely aspirational (and I'm being kind here) promise with zero practical strategy for how to set about achieving it.

I don't believe that people of normal intelligence and education actually believed that Trump and the a Republican Party were going to set up a universal healthcare system at a significantly lower cost than ACA. It was clear to the blindest of bats that that wasn't going to happen.

IMO they either expected him to dismantle ACA and were happy enough to go back to the previous status quo of millions of uninsured fellow citizens or they had entirely different reasons such as his demagoguery about immigration and the wall etc. I think his evangelical support was mostly down to that sort of thinly disguised racism rather than any belief that he was a fit person to lead the country.

Well, either that or I wildly overestimate the political nous of the average American.



Yeah, good question. I think they need someone new myself. Pity they missed out on Bernie Sanders in 2016 but I feel he is probably too old for another run in 2020, and the same for Joe Biden. Not so much because they couldn't physically do the job (I've no idea on that) but because I think the same old faces that didn't work in 2016 probably won't work 4 years later. In fact I thought the idea was that Biden was already too old in 2016 when he stood aside for Hillary, or am I misremembering?
Misremembering.
 

Jack Walsh

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It has been noted in many places that health and other day to day issues, made significant hay in the mid terms, so it makes absolute sense to follow through for the next vote. Also, Republicans will have noted this and will have their own strategy in place to counter.
That's why Friday's ruling is diabolical for GOP.
No win scenario

Goes to Supreme Court and Fri ruling gets shot down, Trump will go ballistic, stabbed in the back by "his" appointees, treachery.
And Dems will claim the matter is now over and the best plan won, now they will expand it and make it even more accessible as their Number 1 2020 pledge.

Goes to Supreme Court and Fri ruling is upheld.
We will have a limbo mess, with no chance GOP can get anything substantial or even workable in operation quickly
Political dynamite for Dems, an issue they are already killing the GOP on will now be a nuclear weapon for them in 2020
"Trump and GOP screwing you and using their hand picks on SC to do it"

So a SC win for Trump will be the epitome of Pyrrhic, with scenario B actually been far more politically disastrous.

I believe however the SC will strike it down
 

petaljam

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Misremembering.
About why Biden didn't run? Very possible, as I said. I don't follow US politics as obsessively as I should I guess ;)

Still, that's kind of my point - it was blatantly obvious to anyone with even a passing interest in US politics that Trump was an unfit candidate. WTF couldn't people who claim to actually know this stuff see him for what he was - a 2-bit crook playing to people's worst traits.
 

Wagmore

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About why Biden didn't run? Very possible, as I said. I don't follow US politics as obsessively as I should I guess ;)

Still, that's kind of my point - it was blatantly obvious to anyone with even a passing interest in US politics that Trump was an unfit candidate. WTF couldn't people who claim to actually know this stuff see him for what he was - a 2-bit crook playing to people's worst traits.
Don't agree with the second bit at all.Maybe if you followed US politics more closely, you'd see things differently but that's debatable. It's widely accepted that Biden not running was a combination of the election coming too close to the death of his son and a sense that Obama had decreed that "he was with her."
 

petaljam

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Don't agree with the second bit at all.Maybe if you followed US politics more closely, you'd see things differently but that's debatable. It's widely accepted that Biden not running was a combination of the election coming too close to the death of his son and a sense that Obama had decreed that "he was with her."
I'm agreeing with that, so I dpn't know what you don't agree with? That it was blatantly obvious to anyone with the vaguest interest in US current affairs that Trump was a crook and a conman? Really?
 

owedtojoy

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If the US was run by opinion polls, then there would be a large measure of gun control, and abortion rights would be secure.

Besides, the Kaiser Foundation tracks ACA piopularity and found in November that the public favoured it by 53% to 40%, the biggest margin yet. It popularity has been steadily increasing since Republicans started trying to repeal it in earnest.

KFF Health Tracking Poll: The Public's Views on the ACA | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation

Independents were about evenly divided, while Democrats favoured by a large majority, Republicans were equally against.

And are the American people so foolish as to believe Trump would agree with a Democratic Congress on Healthcare? The public trust the Democrats more on Healthcare, as the 2018 mid-terms proved, so the GOP are doing a great job handing Democrats a stick to beat them with.

Go on, let's see them cheer as millions are deprived of health insurance. Great issue for 2020.
 

Dame_Enda

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That was before Judge Reed O'Connor struck down the ACA though.
 

owedtojoy

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That was before Judge Reed O'Connor struck down the ACA though.
Judge who?

The optics are appalling for Trump and the GOP.

If this had happened two years ago, it would be a Judge rebuking a President acting beyond the law ....

Now it is a conservative Judge facilitating a mean-minded President who wants to end insurance for previous conditions. Americans are not as stupid as the GOP thinks.

(Better wait until the appeals, though. Most commentators think the case was a crazy crackpot venture to start with, one where they picked a crazy, crackpot judge. But Trump has appointed plenty.)
 


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