Obviously Labour are a pro-capitalist party

Big Bobo

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But what sort of market economy do they want? For me Labour have always been about superficial change. A small reform here and there. Labour in Ireland are nothing more than a crutch for right wing parties especially Fine Gael. A vote for Labour is also the same as a vote for Kenny, Varadkar, Hayes and Co. If anything Labour are the party of the trendy middle class liberal.

However I didn't start this thread just to have a pop at the Labour Party and their betrayal of the working class. I am interested in hearing from Labour supporters why they think the ex official IRA is the best way forward. What exactly are the main differences between Labour and FF and FG for example?
 


geraghd

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The main difference is that Labour are Social Democrats, FG are Christian Democrats, and FF are a populist party.
 

Tressell

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And Labour will be in Govt. after next election. One of the above won't.
 

Big Bobo

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The main difference is that Labour are Social Democrats, FG are Christian Democrats, and FF are a populist party.
Just because it says so on the tin it doesn't necessarily mean that's what's inside. Stop dealing with clichés and point to evidence that labour are "social democrats". A social democrat used to mean a marxist who believed in a transitional approach rather than revolution, now it seems to include every posh liberal who wants Guantanamo shut down.
 

geraghd

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PhoenixIreland

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Just because it says so on the tin it doesn't necessarily mean that's what's inside. Stop dealing with clichés and point to evidence that labour are "social democrats". A social democrat used to mean a marxist who believed in a transitional approach rather than revolution, now it seems to include every posh liberal who wants Guantanamo shut down.
A Social Democrat is someone who wants to reform rather than abolish capitalism by splicing universal public services and semi state companies into the market.
All of Labours policies and record in govt reflect this.
 

Tressell

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BB-Why throw out all this propagandist tripe! Whatever faults lie within the LP and there are many, it would be better perhaps for your Party to nail its colours to the mast and tell us how to get out of this mess. It is all very well to spout the glories of the proletariat, and to be honest I went through that phase myself in puberty many moons ago, however those days are gone, and they are gone through the emergence of reality. We can thank the workers, who I know you admire, of Poland, namely through their Solidarity Union, for making the break/change. If your ideology did not suit these people for nigh on 50 years, perhaps it is time for you to realise that it will not suit us now.

For the record BB, I do admire the perseverance of your Party. They are ALWAYS guaranteed to make up the numbers at all protests. In a way they are a bit like Bertie-'Could be seen at the opening of a bag of crisps.' On a personal note you could join the LP. It would appear to have a brighter future.
 

Big Bobo

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A Social Democrat is someone who wants to reform rather than abolish capitalism by splicing universal public services and semi state companies into the market.
All of Labours policies and record in govt reflect this.
I think the fact an ex PD like yourself has slotted so smoothly into Labour says it all really! You are right in saying Labour are a party that worships the market. However the definition of a social democrat is very vauge. As I said it used to mean someone who wanted to achieve socialism through the ballot box. These days it seems to include anyone because they believe in gay marriage.
 

Big Bobo

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BB-Why throw out all this propagandist tripe! Whatever faults lie within the LP and there are many, it would be better perhaps for your Party to nail its colours to the mast and tell us how to get out of this mess. It is all very well to spout the glories of the proletariat, and to be honest I went through that phase myself in puberty many moons ago, however those days are gone, and they are gone through the emergence of reality. We can thank the workers, who I know you admire, of Poland, namely through their Solidarity Union, for making the break/change. If your ideology did not suit these people for nigh on 50 years, perhaps it is time for you to realise that it will not suit us now.

For the record BB, I do admire the perseverance of your Party. They are ALWAYS guaranteed to make up the numbers at all protests. In a way they are a bit like Bertie-'Could be seen at the opening of a bag of crisps.' On a personal note you could join the LP. It would appear to have a brighter future.
:confused:
 

juanpablo

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I think the trick is to balance enough left wing policy, like i dunno Free 3rd Level Education, to appease any ideological sentiment that may arise from Labours supporters with getting away implementing whatever is in vogue and can be stomached by their conservative coalition chums.
 

PhoenixIreland

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I think the fact an ex PD like yourself has slotted so smoothly into Labour says it all really! You are right in saying Labour are a party that worships the market. However the definition of a social democrat is very vauge. As I said it used to mean someone who wanted to achieve socialism through the ballot box. These days it seems to include anyone because they believe in gay marriage.
My PD days ended long before the party did Bobo, in fact in total they lasted around a year, and before that I was pretty centre-left anyway, can people not change their views?
I didn't say Labour "worshiped" the market.
It's not vauge, it's very clear, I gave you a nice clear definition right there.
Socialism in phases through the ballot box is "democratic socialism" not "social democracy".

You speak with such passion about how everyone else is a dirty capitalist yet any time I've tried to pin down some detailes from you on how you want to do things you've either given vague slogans instead of policies, or youve said some things that made me so scared I wanted to reconvert to neoliberalism.

So give me a few bullet points even on what you'd like to see, its easy to be critical of others.
 

Big Bobo

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My PD days ended long before the party did Bobo, in fact in total they lasted around a year, and before that I was pretty centre-left anyway, can people not change their views?
I didn't say Labour "worshiped" the market.
It's not vauge, it's very clear, I gave you a nice clear definition right there.
Socialism in phases through the ballot box is "democratic socialism" not "social democracy".

You speak with such passion about how everyone else is a dirty capitalist yet any time I've tried to pin down some detailes from you on how you want to do things you've either given vague slogans instead of policies, or youve said some things that made me so scared I wanted to reconvert to neoliberalism.

So give me a few bullet points even on what you'd like to see, its easy to be critical of others.
Well perhaps you can define a "social democrat" for me

If you have any direct questions I'd be happy to answer them. Maybe tommorow though as I'm going to log off soon
 

irish_bob

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But what sort of market economy do they want? For me Labour have always been about superficial change. A small reform here and there. Labour in Ireland are nothing more than a crutch for right wing parties especially Fine Gael. A vote for Labour is also the same as a vote for Kenny, Varadkar, Hayes and Co. If anything Labour are the party of the trendy middle class liberal.

However I didn't start this thread just to have a pop at the Labour Party and their betrayal of the working class. I am interested in hearing from Labour supporters why they think the ex official IRA is the best way forward. What exactly are the main differences between Labour and FF and FG for example?
i agree with you bobo

labour are the party of the trendy middle class liberal
 

setanta

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But what sort of market economy do they want? For me Labour have always been about superficial change. A small reform here and there. Labour in Ireland are nothing more than a crutch for right wing parties especially Fine Gael. A vote for Labour is also the same as a vote for Kenny, Varadkar, Hayes and Co. If anything Labour are the party of the trendy middle class liberal.

However I didn't start this thread just to have a pop at the Labour Party and their betrayal of the working class. I am interested in hearing from Labour supporters why they think the ex official IRA is the best way forward. What exactly are the main differences between Labour and FF and FG for example?
Bobo's got an itch he just has to scratch. The highlighted phrase is just delicious!

Ooooohh, nasty Labour, sellouts the lot of them ..... over and over and over and over again ..... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!
 

PhoenixIreland

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