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OccuP.ie


ruserious

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Jan 3, 2011
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The Occupy movement is an international protest movement against social and economic inequality, its primary goal being to make the economic structure and power relations in society fairer.

With this in mind, I have started this thread for those interested in sharing ideas on how to improve Ireland. You will be expected to provide an economic plan (doesn't have to be fully thought through, yet) which will make the economic structure and power relations in society fairer.

Hopefully, after you make a submission, other posters will critique them and this may, just may, lead to some sound ideas coming from this website.

My own idea:

We have a serious problem with the public finances on our hands. Especially in the social welfare department and this cannot continue. I do not want to just cut the dole and other benefits because you are in serious danger of spiraling the situation into furthur despair.
We need to create a wider gulf between those who work and those who do not. This would hopefully end to a certain extent, the life on benefits claim.
You do not need to slash benefits in order to do this.
I suggest that the government create a national plan with ISME so that SME's will get a tax break of some kind in return for raising the mininum wage and numbers employed by them. The tax break will cover this extra cost and a small benefit to the SME's extra to that cost in order to entice them to follow it.
While we will have lost revenue from the new tax break, the extra money going into employee's pockets will be spent in the economy and more people may get jobs with the SME's also. The extra funding will act as it's own stimulus in the wider economy.
There would be a wider gulf between those on benefits and those working as a result. This would motivate people to find work, where a national scheme will be in place anyway such as Fás2.0 to help train, upskill and follow through to actually finding jobs.
Over time, we will be able to reduce the social welfare bill as a result.

In summation:
Raise Mininum wage.
Provide tax breaks for SME's to allow this.
Create gulf between employed and unemployed.
Get a motivated unemployed.
Spin off effects will create more jobs.
Slowly reduce welfare bill without causing despair.




I look forward to reading your submissions.
 


The System Works

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These would be among my first steps:

1. As unemployment is our most immediate priority, I would abolish any barriers to increased employment. That includes the abolition of, among other things, the minimum wage and corporate taxes.

2. Full legalization of drugs and prostitution. The left can sign up to that one, too.

3. Leave the EU and join EFTA, regain sovereignty.

4. Then, proceed to roll back the state ever further; away from education, health, and welfare.
 
Last edited:

Mossy Heneberry

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For a start I would not raise the minimum wage. That would only cause more jobs to be lost, the unskilled would remain unemployable and smaller businesses would struggle with wage costs compared to their larger companies.


I would reform the social welfare and FAS system. I think the Scandanavian countries have gotten it right, so I would look at adopting their model and run with that for a while.

Cut back on government, eliminate quangos, reduce foreign aid and NGO spending etc.

Break all links with both private and public sector unions and vested interest lobbyists.
 

ruserious

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For a start I would not raise the minimum wage. That would only cause more jobs to be lost, the unskilled would remain unemployable and smaller businesses would struggle with wage costs compared to their larger companies.

Did you not read the part about the tax breaks? :confused:
 

henryhill

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Are you claiming to represent or be aligned with the Occupy movement in some way? Because those ideas diverge wildly from what Occupy has typically proposed.

In particular, reducing welfare to get people back to work doesn't make any sense when there are no jobs. That proposition makes me think that you're just motivated to rewrite the social contract. If you really wanted to stop moochers who spend a lifetime on welfare (and there are some) the time to do something like that would be when we're near full employment.
 

Mossy Heneberry

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Did you not read the part about the tax breaks? :confused:
I did but the government would just increase taxes somewhere else.

Also Occupy do not want equality, they want their own special place at the trough themselves.
 

ruserious

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Are you claiming to represent or be aligned with the Occupy movement in some way? Because those ideas diverge wildly from what Occupy has typically proposed.

In particular, reducing welfare to get people back to work doesn't make any sense when there are no jobs. That proposition makes me think that you're just motivated to rewrite the social contract. If you really wanted to stop moochers who spend a lifetime on welfare (and there are some) the time to do something like that would be when we're near full employment.
Not alligned at all. I took their broad aim, stated at the top of the OP and made a quirky thread title, where members can discuss ways they would achieve this.
You would only start reducing welfare once the initial plan started getting results.
 

ruserious

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I did but the government would just increase taxes somewhere else.

Also Occupy do not want equality, they want their own special place at the trough themselves.
Ya, you would raise extra tax by getting more people into the workforce by said tax breaks.
 

Tea Shark

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you are a dick. you support oppressive beliefs and pretend to be liberal. that is not a new tactic.
 

seabhcan

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Sep 3, 2007
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I'd like to see a radical change in how we deal with repeat petty crime. It is a particular problem in the cities, and the current system of cycling these cases endlessly though the courts is a disaster. The cost to the legal system, the state, to small businesses, etc is astronomical.

My solution would be to set up prison camps on the islands along the lines of the Norwegian model. Don't send hardened criminals there - but send kids from the 16-20 bracket who have 3 convictions or more. Even a year there would have the important effect of taking these little sh*ts out of the environment which turned them into criminals, and just as importantly, take them out of the city and away from us.

Simultaneously, set up housing for drug addicts well away from the cities. The effect would be to take the market for illegal drugs away from the dealers, and to take the supply of raw young recruits away from the drug gangs.
 

Tawdy

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Sep 4, 2011
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4,532
Are you claiming to represent or be aligned with the Occupy movement in some way? Because those ideas diverge wildly from what Occupy has typically proposed.

In particular, reducing welfare to get people back to work doesn't make any sense when there are no jobs. That proposition makes me think that you're just motivated to rewrite the social contract. If you really wanted to stop moochers who spend a lifetime on welfare (and there are some) the time to do something like that would be when we're near full employment.


I think that his handle here...........ruserious.............sorta gives the game away.
 

L'Chaim

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May 2, 2007
Messages
18,875
I think where Ireland goes wrong is that it makes it difficult for people to start up businesses. Rates, insurance, public liability etc etc are far too high. This not only stops people opening up businesses, but it also pushes up the costs of what they are selling too. The country needs growth in production and growth in consumption.

I travel to the UK and Israel quite a lot. I buy all my clothes in the UK because they are much cheaper than here, for the same brands. Same with household goods; they are much cheaper in the UK. I would be quite happy buying here if the prices were more in line. I go to restaurants quite a lot when I'm in the UK, but I don't go so much here, because the prices here are too high in comparison. Right across the board I spend more in the UK than I do here and it's the price that dictates. Now either the people selling here are charging more, or else the costs to them to sell in the first place is causing them to sell at a higher price. But cutting benefits or raising wages is not going to make me spend any more money here. I'll spend where I'm going to get the best value
 

Mossy Heneberry

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Ya, you would raise extra tax by getting more people into the workforce by said tax breaks.
I doubt it. If people have no previous work experience nor decent skills the higher minimum wage will put the employer off from employing them.


Why not ditch minimum wage and lower 'company' taxes?

Would that not create more employment and increase tax take?
 

Tawdy

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Joined
Sep 4, 2011
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I'd like to see a radical change in how we deal with repeat petty crime. It is a particular problem in the cities, and the current system of cycling these cases endlessly though the courts is a disaster. The cost to the legal system, the state, to small businesses, etc is astronomical.

My solution would be to set up prison camps on the islands along the lines of the Norwegian model. Don't send hardened criminals there - but send kids from the 16-20 bracket who have 3 convictions or more. Even a year there would have the important effect of taking these little sh*ts out of the environment which turned them into criminals, and just as importantly, take them out of the city and away from us.
...and get them toghther in a criminal university? Labour must love you. :roll:
 

ruserious

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Jan 3, 2011
Messages
29,621
I'd like to see a radical change in how we deal with repeat petty crime. It is a particular problem in the cities, and the current system of cycling these cases endlessly though the courts is a disaster. The cost to the legal system, the state, to small businesses, etc is astronomical.

My solution would be to set up prison camps on the islands along the lines of the Norwegian model. Don't send hardened criminals there - but send kids from the 16-20 bracket who have 3 convictions or more. Even a year there would have the important effect of taking these little sh*ts out of the environment which turned them into criminals, and just as importantly, take them out of the city and away from us.

Simultaneously, set up housing for drug addicts well away from the cities. The effect would be to take the market for illegal drugs away from the dealers, and to take the supply of raw young recruits away from the drug gangs.
Like Spike island? The dismal failure that was spike?

I think that his handle here...........ruserious.............sorta gives the game away.
If you want to add to the thread or make a claim do.
 

seabhcan

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
14,327
I think where Ireland goes wrong is that it makes it difficult for people to start up businesses. Rates, insurance, public liability etc etc are far too high. This not only stops people opening up businesses, but it also pushes up the costs of what they are selling too. The country needs growth in production and growth in consumption.

I travel to the UK and Israel quite a lot. I buy all my clothes in the UK because they are much cheaper than here, for the same brands. Same with household goods; they are much cheaper in the UK. I would be quite happy buying here if the prices were more in line. I go to restaurants quite a lot when I'm in the UK, but I don't go so much here, because the prices here are too high in comparison. Right across the board I spend more in the UK than I do here and it's the price that dictates. Now either the people selling here are charging more, or else the costs to them to sell in the first place is causing them to sell at a higher price. But cutting benefits or raising wages is not going to make me spend any more money here. I'll spend where I'm going to get the best value
The problem of high prices are mainly due to high rents - nothing to do with difficulties in starting a business. It is actually very easy to start a business in Ireland, certainly easier than in the UK.
 

ruserious

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Jan 3, 2011
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I doubt it. If people have no previous work experience nor decent skills the higher minimum wage will put the employer off from employing them.


Why not ditch minimum wage and lower 'company' taxes?

Would that not create more employment and increase tax take?
Because as long as people are better off in the dole, they will not seek work. Increasing mininum wage by introducing tax breaks is one method to solve this.
 

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