OECD Report shows collapse in reading standards

gijoe

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Who cares? At least they are all getting Irish lessons daily, that is what really matters!
 


Schuhart

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BTW, people attributing our slide down this table to the advent of texting or internet use are demonstrating a total lack of clear thinking. I'm sure other countries have texting and facebook too. Our decline is relative to the other countries and therefore not indicative of any absolute decline in standards.
Good point - thinking the same myself.
Myself and most of my colleagues have been advocating a return to an emphasis on the 3 Rs for quite some time. The time has come I think.
That sounds reasonable.

We might also take the opportunity of removing the sanctified place of Irish in the curriculum. But isn't that likely to illustrate the problem in reform? There is a sizeable, and vocal, group who will try to deny that the time spent failing to teach Irish at primary level could be usefully employed elsewhere.
 
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Dylan2010

I trained as a primary teacher in the late 1980s. When I started teaching, parents were generally supportive and had trust and respect for teaching as a profession. The above quote shows just how much this attitude has changed.

In recent years the curriculum has become ridiculously overloaded. There has been a move away from direct teaching methods as "chalk and talk" is now completelly frowned upon. Using textbooks in the classroom is now seen as "regressive" and teachers are required to write ridiculous amounts of detailed notes which contribute nothing to the quality of teaching, but simply satify the demands of an ever malevolant inspectorate. The "new" 1999 curriculum is ridicuouly complicated. A look at the strands and strand units of the English curriculum alone will confirm this

Myself and most of my colleagues have been advocating a return to an emphasis on the 3 Rs for quite some time. The time has come I think.

this is what happens when you dont have a market in education. the first step should be to introduce a voucher system that parents can top up if they wish. Next there should be competing carricula providers that schools can sign up to. Next abolish Irish as a must do subject.
State providers get sloppy over time and there is no market mechanism for them to react to
 

endajo

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I agree wholeheartedly with the previous poster. What we need to do is treat education of our children as a commodity. Like water or waste collection or pornography. The market can then reward the efficient and punish the lazy and inept. The market has been proven as the most effective method of organising society and it's not as if anything could go wrong. After all, the market has never failed us before, has it?
 

Terminal

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You must also thank all the teachers trade unions who have ensured world class conditions in terms of top pay and entitlements for their members.

Irish teachers according to CSO statistics were the richest cohort in the Irish population.
This is a typical misinformed comment. Do you have kids? I'm 100% private sector (sme employer), a parent and a parents association member in our local school. Our teachers do an excellent job with the resources they are given and this is the crux of the problem. Many of them work above and beyond what they are required to do. Many give after school extra help to kids at no extra cost to taxpayers, they train football teams, run dramas and musicals, are "listening" ears to kids in crisis, etc. There are 36 kids in my child's classroom and at three have special needs requirements. They have ONE special needs assistant between them. Their teacher takes ALL of the class after school in small groups on different days for extra help!! ... and she is ignoring union rules!! Their copies are methodically corrected and she provides them with interesting/useful handouts all of which take a lot of time.

... I do agree with you on your unions point. Union petty rules and directives restrict innovation, futures thinking and new approaches by our good teachers who are in the majority.

I don't blame our teachers for waste in education. I blame the fat cats at the upper echelons of education ( the so called managers, quangos such as the teaching council, inspectors who rehash template school reports and pass them off as genuine, the parasitic in-service providers who claim exorbitant expenses and fees etc etc.)

We parents have to start taking responsibility too.

I ask this to all of you ... When did you last sit down with your child and read with them for twenty minutes?

Schools are facilitators. A teacher without necessary resources and with inflated class numbers cannot wave a magic wand. The Constitution and 1998 education act make quite clear that parents have primary responsibility for the education of their children.
 

firefly123

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I agree wholeheartedly with the previous poster. What we need to do is treat education of our children as a commodity. Like water or waste collection or pornography. The market can then reward the efficient and punish the lazy and inept. The market has been proven as the most effective method of organising society and it's not as if anything could go wrong. After all, the market has never failed us before, has it?
Literally Dripping with sarcasm! Sir/madam. I salute you!petunia
 
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Dylan2010

I agree wholeheartedly with the previous poster. What we need to do is treat education of our children as a commodity. Like water or waste collection or pornography. The market can then reward the efficient and punish the lazy and inept. The market has been proven as the most effective method of organising society and it's not as if anything could go wrong. After all, the market has never failed us before, has it?
you should use the sarcastic icon, there must be one there :D look , my kids spend a lot of time in non school activities , they goes to a music school (private) and local sports group which have a voluntary aspect and partial commercial., God forbid the state controlled sports and music
 
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Dylan2010

And another thing for the “its grand , nothing to see here , move along” , why do so many kids not fit into the statist one size fits all education system here? It is designed by civil servants for civil servants and god forbid you are in the top or bottom quartile, as you’ll have a poor experience so that mediocrity can reign supreme
 

Terminal

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this is what happens when you dont have a market in education. the first step should be to introduce a voucher system that parents can top up if they wish. Next there should be competing carricula providers that schools can sign up to. Next abolish Irish as a must do subject.
State providers get sloppy over time and there is no market mechanism for them to react to
Another misinformed comment. We need a good well resourced public education system. We already have evidence of what free market forces do to education in Ireland. One only has to cite the existence of private revision schools in the capital. They provide a series of so called notes for regurgitation in the leaving certificate thereby inflating the points required for entry to college. The so called "experts" who provide these notes don't work in the public system? Ever ask yourself why? These private institutions charge exorbitant fees to those who can afford them and they don't face the same range of issues and challenges that ordinary schools do.

On your point about curricula providers .... the UK uses this system and it's an abject failure. It has resulted in massive bureaucracy and unnecessary paperwork, complete with management jargon imported from the private sector. I'd rather see a teacher spend 20 minutes correcting my childs work than filling out some unnecessary form to keep some overpaid goon in the Department of Education (and Skills :roll:) in an unnecessary job!!)

On you point concerning Irish ... i tentatively agree. It should be taught but with 60% emphasis on the spoken word, compulsory to Junior cert and optional for the leaving.

PS - am private sector, former public sector. Left to open my own company. Now employ thirty eight dedicated individuals. So i see things from both ends of the public /private divide. Private enterprise and free market forces have no business in education except in an advisory or partner capacity e.g. work experience to transition years.
 

CptSternn

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Heh, one only has to look as far as this forum to see this. I lost count of the number of threads here on P.IE where people have mixed up 'there' and 'their' or 'weather' and 'whether'.

That even before we get on the topic of the grammatical and spelling errors which are imbued in every thread. ;)
 
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Dylan2010

Another misinformed comment. We need a good well resourced public education system. We already have evidence of what free market forces do to education in Ireland. One only has to cite the existence of private revision schools in the capital. They provide a series of so called notes for regurgitation in the leaving certificate thereby inflating the points required for entry to college. The so called "experts" who provide these notes don't work in the public system? Ever ask yourself why? These private institutions charge exorbitant fees to those who can afford them and they don't face the same range of issues and challenges that ordinary schools do.
Not valid, if you can "beat" the system with rote learning then they are only playing the game




On your point about curricula providers .... the UK uses this system and it's an abject failure. It has resulted in massive bureaucracy and unnecessary paperwork, complete with management jargon imported from the private sector. I'd rather see a teacher spend 20 minutes correcting my childs work than filling out some unnecessary form to keep some overpaid goon in the Department of Education (and Skills :roll:) in an unnecessary job!!).
They dont have a voucher system in the UK so parents cant vote with their feet. thats not a market.



On you point concerning Irish ... i tentatively agree. It should be taught but with 60% emphasis on the spoken word, compulsory to Junior cert and optional for the leaving.
glad to know you know best about my kids education needs and circumstances.

Private enterprise and free market forces have no business in education except in an advisory or partner capacity e.g. work experience to transition years.
pure opinion , and given that we are at the terminal phase of an education bubble it will be interesting to see how many useless gratuates we will be producing in the years ahead. Maybe business jargon is corellated to the increase in state funded business courses :D
 

endajo

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Indeed. Who are those OECD people anyway? What would they know? How dare they compare our children's educational attainments to those in other countries? We are a proud and independent people, who certainly don't need foreigners sticking their noses into our affairs. What next, quarterly reviews? Our Ministers will simply never countenance such interference.
 

uriah

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Well, if you reduce the time allocated to the teaching of English and Mathematics, what do you expect will happen to the standard of English and Mathematics?

The standard of English in the media is very poor. The standard of English on this forum is very poor.

It's not just the teenagers who have a problem.
 
M

MrFunkyBoogaloo

Hmm this thread begs the question of whether the literacy of children is the responsibility of government or parents?
 

maxthedog

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:)

The amazing part is that there has never been a better time in teeanage books. The twilight seris and Harry Potter, would make a good start in aquiring an interest in books and "The Hunger Games" should have kept teenagers looking for more books.

Blaming text message is a bit of a cop-out

In my day it was either Enid Blyton or Penquin Classics, teenage books did not exist.
 

He3

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Well, if you reduce the time allocated to the teaching of English and Mathematics, what do you expect will happen to the standard of English and Mathematics?

The standard of English in the media is very poor. The standard of English on this forum is very poor.

It's not just the teenagers who have a problem.

Has the time allocated to Science been reduced in the same way?
 

uriah

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Has the time allocated to Science been reduced in the same way?
It's been increased in the primary curriculum.
 


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