O'Gorman says children under 16 should be able to change their gender

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Strawberry

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What evidence is there outside Ireland of an increase in rape, sexual assault or violence by trans women or cis men pretending to be trans women following introduction of self ID laws?
Do countries with self ID laws even gather statistics on the subject, or do they record crimes according to gender identity?
 


Emily Davison

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You don't think cis male predators could take advantage of restroom rights demanded by transwomen to prey on biological women.
A bunch of boys already did, starting putting cameras under the women in the cubicles. So the college moved back to single sex.
 

Emily Davison

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I can tell you of a situation once when I was driving a taxi, it was late when I picked this woman up, she made a pass at me which I rebuffed, she then took her top off and told me she would scream rape if I didn't do what she asked.
Luckily I spotted my daughter's boyfriend sitting on the butchers windowsill, I pulled up and told him he was getting a lift home, he said he was Ok where he was, I told him to get in the fuking car.
That’s funny. You told us that story before but it’s still funny. I suppose it’s political incorrect for me to find it funny.
 

petaljam

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What Statistics?
I just had a look back on my posts, My post was early Thursday morning, I was working nights so your reply to my post got lost, as so many posts were made on this thread while I was sleeping.


So the Answer is yes, They should be lobbing for better shelters with private accommodation, instead of suing the shelter, which only harms the users of it.
Thanks for that (I miss loads of posts too, so no worries. There's no obligation to read every page obsessively for replies)

You see the thing is, and despite attempts here by some posters to portray my position as being anti trans people per se, it isn't.

I'm sure the vast majority of trans people only want to live their lives in peace and I wish them all the best in that.

And a few years ago I'd have been very much more pro trans issues than I have now become, and the reason for that is mainly the violent reactions of a number of trans activists to the concerns expressed by women about the possible risks to women and children.

Because, as with the Vancouver example, their reactions show that what they're actually less interested in protecting the vulnerable than in making a point.

And their point always seems to require women to give something up. Never the violent men who are actually the real problem.
 

Golah veNekhar

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Can you expand on this Golah because some feminists here constantly keep hyping potential dangers when we know it's just bs. They haven't produced a logical argument that backs up their red herring. There's obviously something else at play.

My guess is that they're really not afraid of big burly hairy males in their changing rooms at all, but the sight of girly girls so to speak which many of these trans women are. It's what I think you're suggesting in your ontological reference? It's not their masculinity they fear but their femininity.
Do you have sisters? I ask this in terms of the ontological difference.

In some ways I am very much a "girly girl" in other ways I am a bit or a lot of a "tom boy", my sister is very similar but despite her love of guns and the fact that she has obsessive intellectual interests she denies having anything "tom boy" about her. This is the thing, there is often, though maybe not always, much more to a "girly girl" than the most outward signs of "girlinness". My sister is one of the few women from both Ulster tribes who can apply make up immaculately- I praise her for this however I would never reduce her to that. A lot of both types of male to female trans reduce women to such things. However it is not the homosexual type of male to female trans that really frightens a lot of us but rather the autogynephilic type. She won't say it because it is not PC but a pound to a penny Strawbs would find "Blair White" much less objectionable in a woman's changing room than Bruce "Caitlyn" Jenner. I will say though- I don't want autogynephilic male to female trans types anywhere near actual women and would be much more tolerant towards the homosexual type even though my tolerance would fall far below what Mercurial demands.
 

Emily Davison

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Are we into the area of pretending that women pose the same risk to men as men pose to women? If so, we're right in MRA territory.
That’s where we are headed. My husband, he lives in the real world, not the internet one, thinks the idea is nuts. I don’t want him to think that people on pie are totally nuts so I didn’t ask him if his prostate exam was sexual as to be honest I only learnt that from pie. This thread.
Maybe Ratio could ask her husband. If she does that I’ll ask mine. We can compare notes.
 

Emily Davison

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Which reminds me. Cobhguy guy are you married, if you are can you ask your wife what her opinion of women raping men is.
 

Emily Davison

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But it the main one that will affect the greatest amount of people, unisex changing rooms have become the norm in lots of places already.
This is not true. Give us an example of where men and women change in the same place. Even in the place I was in near Prague before you got naked the men and women Changed separately.
 

Strawberry

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Can you expand on this Golah because some feminists here constantly keep hyping potential dangers when we know it's just bs. They haven't produced a logical argument that backs up their red herring. There's obviously something else at play.

My guess is that they're really not afraid of big burly hairy males in their changing rooms at all, but the sight of girly girls so to speak which many of these trans women are. It's what I think you're suggesting in your ontological reference? It's not their masculinity they fear but their femininity.
It's good of you to explain to the little ladies what we're really afraid of. How would we ever know without you to explain it to us?

Listen carefully girls, your fears about people like Karen White and Katie Dolatowski aren't real. Your life experiences which have taught you to be wary of being alone with a male in a secluded space aren't real, and the stats which show that mixed sex bathrooms and changing rooms are more dangerous for women than female only ones aren't real either.

A man has arrived to tell us how illogical we are. We're all just meanies who are afraid of our own femininity.
 

Emily Davison

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Trans women aren’t men or boys, so what to trans women do when they are victims of abuse?
Are you venturing into “separate but equal” territory now?
Do you agree with the policy of female shelters not allowing the woman’s teenage boys in but have no problem with their teenage daughters
 

petaljam

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Fair play to you Livi, such a clear and unequivocal about face is rare here, I would have made the same arguments in the Metoo and believe women threads and you would have labeled me misogynist for doing so.
And there was me thinking you were a progressive.
Is it OK if I address you as "lad" from now on?
Well that's because it is a misogynistic argument.
Whoever makes it.
 

EU Insider

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Do you agree with the policy of female shelters not allowing the woman’s teenage boys in but have no problem with their teenage daughters
We’re not taking about teenage boys. We’re taking about trans women.
It seems the anti trans crowd would rather talk about literally anyone else.
 

Strawberry

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We’re not taking about teenage boys. We’re taking about trans women.
It seems the anti trans crowd would rather talk about literally anyone else.
You never answered my question on the subject. What exactly is wrong with allowing the people who run individual domestic violence shelters to decide their own trans policies?
 

EU Insider

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You never answered my question on the subject. What exactly is wrong with allowing the people who run individual domestic violence shelters to decide their own trans policies?
What the point answering your questions when you can’t be bothered to answer mine?
 

Golah veNekhar

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That’s where we are headed. My husband, he lives in the real world, not the internet one, thinks the idea is nuts. I don’t want him to think that people on pie are totally nuts so I didn’t ask him if his prostate exam was sexual as to be honest I only learnt that from pie. This thread.
Maybe Ratio could ask her husband. If she does that I’ll ask mine. We can compare notes.
When pressed my better half said that he finds the whole discussion sick because the fear of our daughter being someday raped has entered his head. That is his fear around rape.
 

Strawberry

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What the point answering your questions when you can’t be bothered to answer mine?
I did answer yours. That was my answer, that domestic violence shelters should have the freedom of association to decide their own policies on trans admission. What's wrong with that?
 

petaljam

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This is not true. Give us an example of where men and women change in the same place. Even in the place I was in near Prague before you got naked the men and women Changed separately.
True. I've been in a sauna in a spa in Slovenia where you had to be naked, it was a detox/massage thing which supposedly wouldn't work as well in a bikini or swimsuit, and they had separate male and female changing rooms to undress and shower, and then you came out with your towel but you had to take it off to go in the sauna, which was mixed.

That kinna depends on whether or not you think women should always be believed.
I don't think women should always be believed and I don't think the slogan "Believe women" means they should, any more than I believe that supporting the presumption of innocence requires someone to believe that no crime ever took place.

It's about not assuming that thie accused is guilty, and not assuming that the girl is lying and "wanted it really".

In rape cases, it's about giving both the accused and the accuser the same presumption of being in good faith and letting the court decide.
 


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