Old IRA reactions to the emergence of the Provisionals

diy01

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I haven't yet found any references to how former/retired IRA volunteers of the 1916-1950s eras reacted to the emergence of the Provisionals in 1969.

I've read many books on the history of the IRA over the years (Bowyer Bell, Uinseann Mac Eoin, Richard English, Taylor, Matt Treacy, Robert W. White, Hanley etc...)


In particular, I'm wondering how the following individuals may have responded in terms of public comments or writings, etc.:

Tom Barry,
Seán MacBride,
Moss Twomey,
Peadar O'Donnell,
Tony Magan,
Seán Cronin,
Dan Keating,
Seamus O'Donovan,
Éamon de Valera,
Tomás Óg Mac Curtain

They all lived well past 1969 and had all played prominent roles in the IRA at different periods long before the Troubles began.

Can you provide any book references or anecdotes?
 
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bogtrotter

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I haven't yet found any references to how former/retired IRA volunteers of the 1916-1950s eras reacted to the emergence of the Provisionals in 1969.

I've read many books on the history of the IRA over the years (Bowyer Bell, Uinseann Mac Eoin, Richard English, Taylor, Matt Treacy, Robert W. White, Hanley etc...)


In particular, I'm wondering how the following individuals may have responded in terms of public comments or writings, etc.:

Tom Barry,
Seán MacBride,
Moss Twomey,
Peadar O'Donnell,
Tony Magan,
Seán Cronin,
Dan Keating,
Seamus O'Donovan,
Éamon de Valera,
Tomás Óg Mac Curtain

They all lived well past 1969 and had all played prominent roles in the IRA at different periods long before the Troubles began.

Can you provide any book references or anecdotes?
Most of the names posted supported the most recent campaign...
 

between the bridges

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Bleu Poppy

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Two time losers then, sure at least they were consistent...
Multiple losers.

Lost the Civil War.

Lost out when Dev took the majority when he scuttled off to found the MaFFia.

Lost when Dev banned the I.R.A. in 1934.

Lost the Bombing Campaign of 1939-40.

Lost their treacherous Quisling collaboration with the Nazis and associated spying plots against Ireland.

Lost the Border Campaign of the 1950's.

Lost out when Sinn Féin / I.R.A. voted for politics rather than violence in '69/70 period.

Lost the ensuing campaign of violence and were forced to give up their guns and explosives under the Good Friday Agreement.

Lost practically every opportunity to build bridges with the 'Orange' community and the majority in the Republic since then.

Such losers.
 

Boy M5

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Multiple losers.

Lost the Civil War.

Lost out when Dev took the majority when he scuttled off to found the MaFFia.

Lost when Dev banned the I.R.A. in 1934.

Lost the Bombing Campaign of 1939-40.

Lost their treacherous Quisling collaboration with the Nazis and associated spying plots against Ireland.

Lost the Border Campaign of the 1950's.

Lost out when Sinn Féin / I.R.A. voted for politics rather than violence in '69/70 period.

Lost the ensuing campaign of violence and were forced to give up their guns and explosives under the Good Friday Agreement.

Lost practically every opportunity to build bridges with the 'Orange' community and the majority in the Republic since then.

Such losers.
The "legion of the rearguard'' dominated our politics
 

Boy M5

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I haven't yet found any references to how former/retired IRA volunteers of the 1916-1950s eras reacted to the emergence of the Provisionals in 1969.

I've read many books on the history of the IRA over the years (Bowyer Bell, Uinseann Mac Eoin, Richard English, Taylor, Matt Treacy, Robert W. White, Hanley etc...)


In particular, I'm wondering how the following individuals may have responded in terms of public comments or writings, etc.:

Tom Barry,
Seán MacBride,
Moss Twomey,
Peadar O'Donnell,
Tony Magan,
Seán Cronin,
Dan Keating,
Seamus O'Donovan,
Éamon de Valera,
Tomás Óg Mac Curtain

They all lived well past 1969 and had all played prominent roles in the IRA at different periods long before the Troubles began.

Can you provide any book references or anecdotes?
Barry was critical of the actions of the British in the north.
He was also critical of the killing of civilians.

"‘Basically I’m a physical force man. If violent methods are used, you can only counter them with violence. What’s the use in turning the other bloody cheek? Yes I discovered that long ago. But, I would only agree with bombing military targets, and military targets only. The fight to get the British out of Ireland forever is the right of every Irish person, but the killing of non-military personnel in the northern part of our country is something I abhor. The IRA have every right to attack the occupying forces, but nobody, and I emphasise the word nobody has the right to bomb civilian targets. The lives of the ordinary citizens must be protected, and I have always made that quite clear.’"
In an interview with Meda Ryan she put in her book "Tom Barry IRA freedom fighter"
 

McTell

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No
///

Tom Barry,
Seán MacBride,
Moss Twomey,
Peadar O'Donnell,
Tony Magan,
Seán Cronin,
Dan Keating,
Seamus O'Donovan,
Éamon de Valera,
Tomás Óg Mac Curtain
//

We are looking at the guys who failed to "take" norn-irn in 1919-60, so what could they add to the mix in 1969?

They had already effed up our economy up to 1960. Most history does not revolve around shooting, flags, generals, borders, these are concepts for the playground.
 

cricket

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I posted here before about the fact that a long-dead relative of mine used to drink in a pub called Corrigans in Cook street in Cork, next to the Victoria hotel. Tom Barry was a regular there too. My relative told me that Barry was always very reluctant to engage in any discussion on politics, but he got the impression that Barry had mellowed a lot in his later years and was quite an admirer of Jack Lynch.
Barry lived in quite a luxurious apartment in Daunt's Square, with views of both the Grand Parade and Patrick street. The property belonged to the Nicholson family of Woodford Bourne fame and legend had it that he lived there rent free. The Nicholsons would have been regarded as of old Anglo-Irish west Cork stock. A picture of the interior used to be featured on the menu of the Woodford bar where Woodford Bournes used to be, but I don't know if that's still the case. Haven't been there in years.
 

londonpride

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My Family were deeply involved in the Old IRA.
That whole organization turned into a bunch of dreamers .
Dreaming similar to So called dreams of Patrick Pearse who drifted into realms of fantasy that Ireland could only survive as a Catholic Gaelic speaking entity as if there was some Mythological evidence from on high as to there being some glorious past to be reignited
And when things turned sour in the North they were in such a dreamland that their ability to react was so suppressed that they became irrelevant.
 

diy01

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Barry was critical of the actions of the British in the north.
He was also critical of the killing of civilians.

"‘Basically I’m a physical force man. If violent methods are used, you can only counter them with violence. What’s the use in turning the other bloody cheek? Yes I discovered that long ago. But, I would only agree with bombing military targets, and military targets only. The fight to get the British out of Ireland forever is the right of every Irish person, but the killing of non-military personnel in the northern part of our country is something I abhor. The IRA have every right to attack the occupying forces, but nobody, and I emphasise the word nobody has the right to bomb civilian targets. The lives of the ordinary citizens must be protected, and I have always made that quite clear.’"
In an interview with Meda Ryan she put in her book "Tom Barry IRA freedom fighter"
That excludes the Provos so. They specialised in hitting soft targets and defenceless individuals. Their campaigned was doomed from the start but the desire for revenge and sectarian animosity was very strong.
 

Connollyist a/c no.2

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Tom Barry was a supporter of the Provos and pledged his support for them after the 1969 split.

I would guess that virtually all veterans of the post-Civil War IRA like Tony Magan supported the Provos.

As a side note Dan Keating sided with the Continuity IRA in 1986. Tom Maguire of Mayo also supported the Continuity IRA.

Joe Clarke, John Joe Sheehy, Michael Flannery, Nora Connolly (daughter of the executed Connolly) and Maire Comeford (All 1916 veterans) were Provo supporters.
 
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cricket

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Tom Barry was a supporter of the Provos and pledged his support for them after the 1969 split.

I would guess that virtually all veterans of the post-Civil War IRA like Tony Magan supported the Provos.

As a side note Dan Keating sided with the Continuity IRA in 1986. Tom Maguire of Mayo also supported the Continuity IRA.

Joe Clarke, John Joe Sheehy, Michael Flannery, Nora Connolly (daughter of the executed Connolly) and Maire Comeford (All 1916 veterans) were Provo supporters.
I know that the provos weren't around at the time, but how do you account for the fact that Barry participated in the official ceremonies in Cork to mark the foundation of the ROI ? After all, republicans refused to recognise the state.
 

Connollyist a/c no.2

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I know that the provos weren't around at the time, but how do you account for the fact that Barry participated in the official ceremonies in Cork to mark the foundation of the ROI ? After all, republicans refused to recognise the state.
EDIT: Just saw Barry. Well the establishment of the ROI marked the official end of the British connection with the 26 counties. So I suppose he was celebrating that.
 

Boy M5

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I know that the provos weren't around at the time, but how do you account for the fact that Barry participated in the official ceremonies in Cork to mark the foundation of the ROI ? After all, republicans refused to recognise the state.
He alsolectured army officers during the Emergency

I think that was the genus of Guerilla Days
 

ON THE ONE ROAD

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I know that the provos weren't around at the time, but how do you account for the fact that Barry participated in the official ceremonies in Cork to mark the foundation of the ROI ? After all, republicans refused to recognise the state.
he was an intelligence officer in the staters during the emergency as well. Clearly not an abstentionist.

publicly supported the first 1980 hunger strike. He died that year.


Provo's lasted in the field for over two decades. They sustained man power, weapons supply, and money. They had to have support. It would be wrong to super impose modern SF support onto the provos and presume that was it. Given the political map of the 26 counties at the time was basically two and a bit parties it might be reasonable to presume that some people who supported the state through those two and a bit parties were also giving support to the provos and not seeing a contradiction in it.
 

diy01

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Tom Barry was a supporter of the Provos and pledged his support for them after the 1969 split.
Do you recall if this was a pledge made in print or was it at a commemoration etc? I'd like to learn more.

I would guess that virtually all veterans of the post-Civil War IRA like Tony Magan supported the Provos.

As a side note Dan Keating sided with the Continuity IRA in 1986. Tom Maguire of Mayo also supported the Continuity IRA.

Joe Clarke, John Joe Sheehy, Michael Flannery, Nora Connolly (daughter of the executed Connolly) and Maire Comeford (All 1916 veterans) were Provo supporters.
That's true, although Flannery later sided with Republican Sinn Féin at the time of the split in 1986, as did George Harrison who had been one of the major arms suppliers to the Provisionals in the 1970s and early Eighties.

Very very few Northern republicans sided with RSF in 1986. Seán Keenan from Derry and Billy McKee were two of the only prominent individuals who did so. McKee is still alive and recently provided a statement of support to the republican socialist organisation Saoradh, which has links to the New IRA.
 


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