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Oliver Cromwell was a Pimp and Child Sex Trafficer

Cael

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I've just been reading an excellent book by Sean O'Callaghan (no relation to the informer) called "To Hell or Barbados" about the slave trade mostly in women and children from Ireland to the English colonies in America and the West Indies. As Sir William Petty, who had carried out the Down Survey of Ireland wrote in his The Political Anatomy of Ireland (1672):

"The widows and orphens, the deserted wives and families of the swordsmen (England's word at the time for Irish patriots, later to become gunmen) were kidnapped and transported by the slave trading merchants of Bristol which their previous experiance enabled them to organise with advantage to themselves."

Cromwell had been informed that Englishmen in the West Indies had "only Negresses and Maroon women to solace them," as Cromwell's son Henry put it. Cromwell's puritan sensibilities did not hinder him from jumping to supply the colonists lust for fresh young white flesh - and making a good profit to boot. A Captain John Vernon, for example, was employed by the Commissioners for Ireland to kidnap 250 Irish girls around twelve years of age and transport them to Barbados. Once in Barbados they were raped by their English "masters" and, later, forced to breed with Black men - as the English officers found the Irish girls "cold" and they needed to be whipped into submission, where "half caste" girls, who had been trained to their perversions from childhood, were much more to the English taste. Its estimated that tens of thousands of Irish children, both boys and girls, were kidnapped to supply this vile trade.
 


Corcaigh33

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Was mentioned on no less a programme than Question Time on the BBC tonight although not in such detail obviously.

Then again, it is Cromwell we are talking about, in that context nothing would surprise or shock me.
 

padraig

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Cael said:
I've just been reading an excellent book by Sean O'Callaghan (no relation to the informer) called "To Hell or Barbados" about the slave trade mostly in women and children from Ireland to the English colonies in America and the West Indies. As Sir William Petty, who had carried out the Down Survey of Ireland wrote in his The Political Anatomy of Ireland (1672):

"The widows and orphens, the deserted wives and families of the swordsmen (England's word at the time for Irish patriots, later to become gunmen) were kidnapped and transported by the slave trading merchants of Bristol which their previous experiance enabled them to organise with advantage to themselves."

Cromwell had been informed that Englishmen in the West Indies had "only Negresses and Maroon women to solace them," as Cromwell's son Henry put it. Cromwell's puritan sensibilities did not hinder him from jumping to supply the colonists lust for fresh young white flesh - and making a good profit to boot. A Captain John Vernon, for example, was employed by the Commissioners for Ireland to kidnap 250 Irish girls around twelve years of age and transport them to Barbados. Once in Barbados they were raped by their English "masters" and, later, forced to breed with Black men - as the English officers found the Irish girls "cold" and they needed to be whipped into submission, where "half caste" girls, who had been trained to their perversions from childhood, were much more to the English taste. Its estimated that tens of thousands of Irish children, both boys and girls, were kidnapped to supply this vile trade.
Its a very good book that, I read it a few years ago, would highly recommend it.
 

FutureLabourLeader

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Cromwell is really a confusing figure and his life was full of contradictions. On the one hand he was in a republican who advocated justice and liberty but imprisoned tortured and killed many of those who opposed him. The shipping off of thousands of Irish is truly astonishing and even the slighest 'crime' against the Cromwellian government meant you were liable for deportation. it was not restricted to the Irish English poor esp. from Somerset and indeed some English settlers in Ireland were also deported but this was miniscule compared to the vast numbers of Irish
 

Cael

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FutureLabourLeader said:
Cromwell is really a confusing figure and his life was full of contradictions. On the one hand he was in a republican who advocated justice and liberty but imprisoned tortured and killed many of those who opposed him. The shipping off of thousands of Irish is truly astonishing and even the slighest 'crime' against the Cromwellian government meant you were liable for deportation. it was not restricted to the Irish English poor esp. from Somerset and indeed some English settlers in Ireland were also deported but this was miniscule compared to the vast numbers of Irish
Yes this whole autrocity started with a proclamation issued on 24 August 1652, which gave power to the Commissioners of Ireland to transport anyone at all who they judged a danger to the "Commonwealth." But the profit motive quickly took over from considerations of "security." During Cromwell's day the Irish slave trade was much more profitable than the trade in Africans. For one thing, the Africans had to be paid for, while the slavers simply kidnapped at will in Ireland. There was a high "loss" of African "livestock" due to suicide, while the Irish were forbidden by their religion from killing themselves. It generally took ten weeks to transport slaves from Ireland, while it took more than twice that from Africa. Again, the planters were willing to pay a premium for pretty young girls and boys with white skin. Young girls were often "tested" by hired midwives on the Auction block, to make sure they were virgins.

Talking about contradictions, it is so typical of the English that one of the main justifications they used for kidnapping and trafficing Irish woman and Children and selling them off to feed the lust of the colonists, was that they were "in danger of prostitution" in Ireland.
 

Alliance

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He is indeed a rather strange character. I just finished watching the Richard Harris playing Cromwell in the 70's classic.
He shipped off anyone in the British Isles who he considered a threat to the new Commonwealth as slaves. Ireland was a hostile country so there was naturally going to be deportations (though the women brings a lot more into question). Many of Britains losing Royalists and "undesirables" found themselves being sent across the atlantic as slaves too.
 

Cael

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Alliance said:
He is indeed a rather strange character. I just finished watching the Richard Harris playing Cromwell in the 70's classic.
He shipped off anyone in the British Isles who he considered a threat to the new Commonwealth as slaves. Ireland was a hostile country so there was naturally going to be deportations (though the women brings a lot more into question). Many of Britains losing Royalists and "undesirables" found themselves being sent across the atlantic as slaves too.
According to O'Callaghan, there were, indeed, a good number of Royalists in the West Indies, but they were not there as slaves, but as planters. They had been allowed to bring their money from England to buy plantations. In Barbados Royalists and Parliamentarians were on very good terms and took particular care not to offend each other, as they regarded themselves, first and formost, as Englishmen surrounded by enemies - not least the Irish slaves, who made common cause with the African slaves and rose up on several occasions against their tormentors.
 

FutureTaoiseach

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Serves as a good reminder of the barbaric nature of British rule in Ireland over 800 yrs.
 

Unionist

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It amazes me how celebrated Oliver Cromwell is in England - He is renowned for the creation of the new model army and suppressing the enemy etc etc but he was an absurd extreme pluralist who made the people of the Commonwealth (The British Republics name) used and enslaved themselves!

Thankgod for the Monarchy!
 

GusherING

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So should we rephrase "To hell or to Connacht" as "To hell or to Connacht or the West Indies"??!! :eek:
 

Sidewinder

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Anyone remember a few years back when the Revisionist brigade were at the height of their powers? We were all solemnly informed that the massacre at Drogheda was a myth and that Cromwell never did anything else at all at all, oh no, lovely fella he was.

18 years of war and murder? Never happened. Hundreds of thousands dead? Never happened. Tens of thousands of acres of land seized and given to his troops in lieu of pay? Never happened. Battle of Clonmel? Aaaargggh!!! Never Happened!!! 1-300,000 Irish sold into slavery and child rape in the West Indies? Never heard of it guv'nor.

Nah, Cromwell was a nice civilised refined Englishman who came to save us all from the sin of Original Irishness, and it is a mark of our irrational barbarian primitive and superstitious natures that we spit on his memory to this day. Why oh why can't we just be "mature"? :roll:
 

Eddie Collins

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And of course the Irish Gaels known as Scoti, who invaded Scotland in the 5th century and gave it their name, never raped, murdered and displaced the local population or stole their land.
 

Cael

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Eddie Collins said:
And of course the Irish Gaels known as Scoti, who invaded Scotland in the 5th century and gave it their name, never raped, murdered and displaced the local population or stole their land.
So its all right to commit any autrocity as long as someone, somewhere, did it before?
 

Eddie Collins

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Cael said:
Eddie Collins said:
And of course the Irish Gaels known as Scoti, who invaded Scotland in the 5th century and gave it their name, never raped, murdered and displaced the local population or stole their land.
So its all right to commit any autrocity as long as someone, somewhere, did it before?
People who constantly whinge and hate a people for what their ancestors allegedly did, should remember what their own ancestors did.

Else they are a bunch of whinging, hypocritical, hate-filled, bigots.
 

limey

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[quote="Eddie CollinsPeople who constantly whinge and hate a people for what their ancestors allegedly did, should remember what their own ancestors did.

Else they are a bunch of whinging, hypocritical, hate-filled, bigots.[/quote]

That's right the Irish empire roars on to this very day!
 

Cael

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Eddie Collins said:
Cael said:
[quote="Eddie Collins":3gmcs0x8]And of course the Irish Gaels known as Scoti, who invaded Scotland in the 5th century and gave it their name, never raped, murdered and displaced the local population or stole their land.
So its all right to commit any autrocity as long as someone, somewhere, did it before?
People who constantly whinge and hate a people for what their ancestors allegedly did, should remember what their own ancestors did.

Else they are a bunch of whinging, hypocritical, hate-filled, bigots.[/quote:3gmcs0x8]

"allegedly?"

Ive heard of Halocaust Denial before, but this is the first time Ive heard of Slavery Denial. Sad how low some people will sink to whitewash any crime.
 

Eddie Collins

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limey said:
[quote="Eddie CollinsPeople who constantly whinge and hate a people for what their ancestors allegedly did, should remember what their own ancestors did.

Else they are a bunch of whinging, hypocritical, hate-filled, bigots.
That's right the Irish empire roars on to this very day![/quote]

That's right, the Irish Gaels haven't left Scotland yet, and there are around 1 million Irish invaders in England.
 


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