Olympic Golf: Team Ireland or Team Great Britain?

Al Bino

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The back page of today’s Indo (p72) chronicles yesterday’s IOC recommendation that golf be included in the 2016 Olympics.

This announcement immediately throws up the question of which team the Ulster men Graeme McDowell and Rory Mcllroy should represent? The views of both players who will be teaming up to represent Ireland at this year’s golf world cup on this issue are quoted as follows;

Mcllroy: “If I’m lucky enough to be on team GB or whatever, it’d be great”.

McDowell: “It’s the biggest sporting event on the planet and I’d love to be involved … it’s an honour to represent your country. I don’t mind which one I play for”.

Personally, I was very disappointed to read both players comments as I sincerely hope they tog out so to speak for Ireland. At the end of the day, both men were born in Ireland, therefore, they’re Irish and should represent Ireland. On the other hand, this charade of Great Britain being a country should not be let continued. Great Britain is not a country, end off. If someone is from Scotland for instance, they’re Scottish and should therefore represent Scotland and not some imaginary country called Great Britain.

Whether one is catholic or protestant or are from a nationalist or unionist tradition, if they’re born on the Island of Ireland, they’re Irish, end of story.

Anyone else any views on this? I know for example in the past, Mary Peters won an athletics gold for GB while Wayne McCullough won a Boxing bronze in the green colours. It’ll certainly be interesting to see who both players declare for and I sincerely hope it’s for the only country in the equation that being Ireland.

Ps – Apologies and despite my best efforts, I couldn’t get a online link to the article.
 


G

Gimpanzee

Do people never tire of this B0llocks? 'They were born in Ireland so they're Irish so they should blah blah blah...'.

McIlroy and McDowell aren't bothered one way or the other who they represent and why would they. Eye on the prize. I couldn't get a rats ass what flag they'll fly under or whether they see themselves as British, Irish or Mexican that's their business. If they are playing they'll have my (utterly worthless) support.
 
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Do people never tire of this B0llocks? 'They were born in Ireland so they're Irish so they should blah blah blah...'.

McIlroy and McDowell aren't bothered one way or the other who they represent and why would they. Eye on the prize. I couldn't get a rats ass what flag they'll fly under or whether they see themselves as British, Irish or Mexican that's their business. If they are playing they'll have my (utterly worthless) support.
True to norm Gimpanzee you miss the point of the thread. The very essence of the Olympics is the idea of individuals representing their country vis-a-vis other countries. Not everyone can represent their country in the Olympics and they is no guarantee that McDowell for instance will have the honour of representing his country. It is for example also the dream of many atheletes to lead their country in the torch procession of the opening ceremony of the Oympics. So don't give me this nonsense about sports people not being proud to represent their country.

In light of this, please take your cynicism elsewhere.
 
G

Gimpanzee

True to norm Gimpanzee you miss the point of the thread. The very essence of the Olympics is the idea of individuals representing their country vis-a-vis other countries. Not everyone can represent their country in the Olympics and they is no guarantee that McDowell for instance will have the honour of representing his country. It is for example also the dream of many atheletes to lead their country in the torch procession of the opening ceremony of the Oympics. So don't give me this nonsense that sports people being not proud to represent their country.

In light of this, please take your cynicism elsewhere.
Sweet mother of the baby jebus.... And you think I missed the point?
 
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Sweet mother of the baby jebus.... And you think I missed the point?
Please do not try to sidetrack from the theme of the thread just because you cannot respond adequately to my contribution. Did you not even bother to read the quotes of the golfers in question and the honour alluded to of representing one's country in the Olympics. Instead, you just dived in with your rant that the only thing sports people care about is the prize on offer and that it bears little in relation to the honour of representing one's country.
 
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G

Gimpanzee

Please do not try to sidetrack from the theme of the thread just because you cannot respond adequately to my contribution. Did you not even bother to read the quotes of the golfers in question and the honour alluded to of representing one's country in the Olympics. Instead, you just dived in with your rant that the only thing sports people care about is the prize on offer and that it bears little in relation to the honour of representing one's country.
Oh, they both said they'd be honoured to represent a country. Just that neither was too bothered which one they'd be representing. Which is fine by me, but a big rump of hand-wringing patriots (probably on all sides) have some difficulty with this as per usual, and irritated the OP to the point of opening a thread on the matter. I don't see what your difficulty with my comments in this regard are. Its fairly clear.

As for your assertion that pro-golfers who regularly represent their country would get all jelly-kneed and teary-eyed at carrying a flag around an athletics stadium and not be exclusively interested in prospect of an Olympic medal; well, if you want to believe that, then fair enough.
 

DaBrow

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Jan 23, 2008
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416
I'm not happy at all with the selection: Martial Arts are totally under-represented

The back page of today’s Indo (p72) chronicles yesterday’s IOC recommendation that golf be included in the 2016 Olympics.

This announcement immediately throws up the question of which team the Ulster men Graeme McDowell and Rory Mcllroy should represent? The views of both players who will be teaming up to represent Ireland at this year’s golf world cup on this issue are quoted as follows;

Mcllroy: “If I’m lucky enough to be on team GB or whatever, it’d be great”.

McDowell: “It’s the biggest sporting event on the planet and I’d love to be involved … it’s an honour to represent your country. I don’t mind which one I play for”.

Personally, I was very disappointed to read both players comments as I sincerely hope they tog out so to speak for Ireland. At the end of the day, both men were born in Ireland, therefore, they’re Irish and should represent Ireland. On the other hand, this charade of Great Britain being a country should not be let continued. Great Britain is not a country, end off. If someone is from Scotland for instance, they’re Scottish and should therefore represent Scotland and not some imaginary country called Great Britain.

Whether one is catholic or protestant or are from a nationalist or unionist tradition, if they’re born on the Island of Ireland, they’re Irish, end of story.

Anyone else any views on this? I know for example in the past, Mary Peters won an athletics gold for GB while Wayne McCullough won a Boxing bronze in the green colours. It’ll certainly be interesting to see who both players declare for and I sincerely hope it’s for the only country in the equation that being Ireland.

Ps – Apologies and despite my best efforts, I couldn’t get a online link to the article.
Personally I'm not happy at all with the IOC Decision on Rugby & Golf.


Karate should have been selected, Martial Arts are completely under-represented in the olympic games.

Taekwondo was derived from Japanese Karate when the native arts of Korea were suppressed during the Japanese Occupation, so why should the descendant of the original art have olympic status and not the ancestor?


The original Games were Military orientated: Hence Shooting, Archery, Wrestling, Sprinting, Swimming, Horseriding, Fencing even............. so why do we have Lazy Judo and Taekwondo?

There should be Karate, Wu Shu/Kung Fu, Iaido/Kendo & Mixed Combat.
 

disgruntledcitizen

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Personally I'm not happy at all with the IOC Decision on Rugby & Golf.


Karate should have been selected, Martial Arts are completely under-represented in the olympic games.

Taekwondo was derived from Japanese Karate when the native arts of Korea were suppressed during the Japanese Occupation, so why should the descendant of the original art have olympic status and not the ancestor?


The original Games were Military orientated: Hence Shooting, Archery, Wrestling, Sprinting, Swimming, Horseriding, Fencing even............. so why do we have Lazy Judo and Taekwondo?

There should be Karate, Wu Shu/Kung Fu, Iaido/Kendo & Mixed Combat.
so the olympics should only have sports that you approve of ? i'm pretty sure that if Karate was there and not Judo then there'd be people complaining also, they simply cannot have every sport and select them on a wide set of criteria, obliviously some will always be excluded and some added / dropped
 

DaBrow

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so the olympics should only have sports that you approve of ? i'm pretty sure that if Karate was there and not Judo then there'd be people complaining also, they simply cannot have every sport and select them on a wide set of criteria, obliviously some will always be excluded and some added / dropped
I'm stating a fact...........

The Ancient Greek olympics originally was an event that had athletes or competitors whom were actually soldiers.

Boxing is a a perfect example............
I love Baseball as an olympic sport....... Soccer too because I remember when during the Athens Games in 2004 the iraqis whose country was a mess won a bronze medal, also it was an opportunity to allow some non-professional soccer players that had talent to play for their country outside of FIFA control.

A few team sports are OK.......... but Rugby and Golf are not games that relate to the original spirit of the games which is as mentioned militarily based.

Golf is a game suited to the aristocracy and will not be taken seriously and neither will Rugby.


There is a snowball's chance in hell that you would see Scottish, Welsh and English rugby players play on the same team............. then there's the issue of Unionist Irish Rugby players possibly playing against our bunch.
 

Herodotus

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Karate can never be in the olympics. There are too many derivatives with diverging rules for it to be practical. MMA should be an olympic sport. Pankration, the ancient form of MMA was in the olympics. It should certainly be reintroduced, particularly as MMA is the fastest growing sport on the planet.
 

Clanrickard

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DaBrow

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Taekwondo is no different...... there are derivatives too with golf & rugby

Karate can never be in the olympics. There are too many derivatives with diverging rules for it to be practical. MMA should be an olympic sport. Pankration, the ancient form of MMA was in the olympics. It should certainly be reintroduced, particularly as MMA is the fastest growing sport on the planet.
Karate could be in the olympics............ Regardless of what style you practise, there are 2 bodies that cater for all the recognised styles.

The WUKO (World Union of Karate Organisations) & WKF (World Karate Federation).......... Taekwondo is the same because the IOC Recognises WTF Taekwondo which concentrates more on kicking and not ITF Taekwondo which is equal kicking and punching/striking.

MMA has no flair or aura like the above, making it no more than a concoction without any flavour because it is like a broth with too many cooks.


There are opposing types of rugby: League and Union............... so to what you are saying they can't have olympic status either.

Golf aswell probably because there's Miniature, Crazy and traditional aswell.
 

Herodotus

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Karate could be in the olympics............ Regardless of what style you practise, there are 2 bodies that cater for all the recognised styles.

The WUKO (World Union of Karate Organisations) & WKF (World Karate Federation).......... Taekwondo is the same because the IOC Recognises WTF Taekwondo which concentrates more on kicking and not ITF Taekwondo which is equal kicking and punching/striking.

MMA has no flair or aura like the above, making it no more than a concoction without any flavour because it is like a broth with too many cooks.


There are opposing types of rugby: League and Union............... so to what you are saying they can't have olympic status either.

Golf aswell probably because there's Miniature, Crazy and traditional aswell.
Disagree with the bit I bolded. MMA is far superior to any individual martial art, you need to know everything or you lose. It could be compared to multi-eventing in athletics (decathlon/heptathlon) and the triathlon. What about kenpo karate, is that recognised by WUKO/WKF. I have finished 3rd in the world championships in that. I know with some training I could get a gold medal.
 
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Oh, they both said they'd be honoured to represent a country. Just that neither was too bothered which one they'd be representing. Which is fine by me, but a big rump of hand-wringing patriots (probably on all sides) have some difficulty with this as per usual, and irritated the OP to the point of opening a thread on the matter. I don't see what your difficulty with my comments in this regard are. Its fairly clear.

As for your assertion that pro-golfers who regularly represent their country would get all jelly-kneed and teary-eyed at carrying a flag around an athletics stadium and not be exclusively interested in prospect of an Olympic medal; well, if you want to believe that, then fair enough.
1 - To be fair to the OP you're putting words into he/she's mouth.

2 - Why do you continue to post in such hyperbole - nobody said anything about golfers going "jelly-kneed" or anything off the sort.

3 - You made a statement that sports people are simply motivated by the prize on offer. I countered this simplistic and cynical statement by stating that sports people are often very motivated by the idea of representing their country and no where is this more true than in the very concept of the Olympics. Do you think that someone like Sonia O'Sullivan was just motivated by 'the prize on offer'? Time and again you have evaded to address this singular point and instead continue to engage in making assumptions as to what everybody's else take is on this thread.
 

DaBrow

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Disagree with the bit I bolded. MMA is far superior to any individual martial art, you need to know everything or you lose. It could be compared to multi-eventing in athletics (decathlon/heptathlon) and the triathlon. What about kenpo karate, is that recognised by WUKO/WKF. I have finished 3rd in the world championships in that. I know with some training I could get a gold medal.
Kenpo isn't recognised by either because it is a different martial art & it is closer to Kung Fu because it hasn't changed from its original form........... Karate was added at the end because it helped make it more marketable/attractive.

Tang Soo Do & Taekwondo were marketed for years as "Korean Karate"

WUKO Kata List
Gōjū-ryū,
********************ō-ryū,
Shōtōkan-ryū,
Wadō-ryū,
Shōrin-ryū,
Uechi-ryū,
Kyokushinkai,
Budōkan.

WKF Kata List
Shōtōkan-ryū
********************ō-ryū
Gōjū-ryū
Wadō-ryū
Karate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hapkido is a true martial Art that is a perfect hybrid......... Throws, Kicks, Locks, Punches, strikes, pressure points & it looks much more graceful than MMA.
Hapkido - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia









Golf quite frankly bores the hell out of me and most people, it is a sport that is only played for trying to feel sophisticated or keep up with old boys club. It is pretensious to be perfectly honest and pretensious people play it so they can mix in high class social circles.

How many people seriously play the sport or follow it to seriously be an olympic sport?
 
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sakhee

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3 - You made a statement that sports people are simply motivated by the prize on offer. I countered this simplistic and cynical statement by stating that sports people are often very motivated by the idea of representing their country and no where is this more true than in the very concept of the Olympics. Do you think that someone like Sonia O'Sullivan was just motivated by 'the prize on offer'? Time and again you have evaded to address this singular point and instead continue to engage in making assumptions as to what everybody's else take is on this thread.
Yes but McDowell said it was an honour to represent your country and he doesn't mind which one he represents(Most people only consider themselves to have one country or allegiance to one country).It would appear from that it is an honour to compete at international level but it doesn't matter whether you represent your own country or any other one.Sonia O'Sullivan wanted to compete in the Commonwealth Games for Australia.Surely this shows that sportspeople are more interested in competing at the top level than concerning themselves too much with being proud to represent their own country.
 

johnfás

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Sonia O'Sullivan wanted to compete in the Commonwealth Games for Australia.Surely this shows that sportspeople are more interested in competing at the top level than concerning themselves too much with being proud to represent their own country.
Of course they don't care - top sports people are too busy and interested in winning things. Most of them don't have the time to sit at a computer, dwelling and whining over historical and "patriotic" issues.
 
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