One Quarter of Entire UUP Membership Belong to Fermanagh & South Tyrone Association

picador

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The Ulster Unionist Party has in the past been noted for its self-destructively democratic nature (remember all those divisive debates between Trimble and Jeffrey Donaldson at the Waterfront Hall).

With a leadership election imminent perceived 'anti-establishment' candidate, Basil McCrea, has finally gained access to the party's membership lists, though only he'd threatened legal action against party officers who are loyal to his rival, Fermanagh man Tom Elliot.

McCrea discovered that around a quarter of the party's entire membership belong to just one constituency association, Fermanagh & South Tyrone. Of course that doesn't necessarily mean that all 600 of the F & ST association's members will turn up on the day to vote en bloc for Elliot but it's not good news for McCrea, whose only chance must lie in convincing the three-quarters of the membership who do not reside in F & ST that the party is being subverted by an undemocratic cabal.

In total the UUP has eighteen constituency associations.

Legal threat to the UUP leadership race ebbs - Politics, News - Belfasttelegraph.co.uk

A waning party that conducts a critical leadership election amid such undemocratic circumstances is surely doomed.
 


Scipio

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Having briefly followed the whole debate (débâcle), this doesn't exactly shock. The UUP are on life-support, at best.
 

picador

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UUP twinned with SDLP.

Not a bad thing. Political parties can outlive their usefulness.
I don't dispute the SDLP has been on the wane but it recently managed a leadership election that was democratic.

With internal party democracy in such a sorry state the UUP is not worth saving.
 

blinding

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It is looking pretty bad for the Ulster Unionist party when pretty much everyone does not give a damn that they are having a leadership election or who is competing for that leadership or who wins.
 

Cai

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The figures are remarkable.

My party has more members in the local government ward I'm sitting in now than the UUP in the whole of the Lagan Valley constituency.

How can things have come to this?
 

picador

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TrueBlue84

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The Ulster Unionist Party has in the past been noted for its self-destructively democratic nature (remember all those divisive debates between Trimble and Jeffrey Donaldson at the Waterfront Hall).

With a leadership election imminent perceived 'anti-establishment' candidate, Basil McCrea, has finally gained access to the party's membership lists, though only he'd threatened legal action against party officers who are loyal to his rival, Fermanagh man Tom Elliot.

McCrea discovered that around a quarter of the party's entire membership belong to just one constituency association, Fermanagh & South Tyrone. Of course that doesn't necessarily mean that all 600 of the F & ST association's members will turn up on the day to vote en bloc for Elliot but it's not good news for McCrea, whose only chance must lie in convincing the three-quarters of the membership who do not reside in F & ST that the party is being subverted by an undemocratic cabal.

In total the UUP has eighteen constituency associations.

Legal threat to the UUP leadership race ebbs - Politics, News - Belfasttelegraph.co.uk

A waning party that conducts a critical leadership election amid such undemocratic circumstances is surely doomed.
Wow! How very unlike you to misrepresent a story again to meet your own needs.

Firstly explain to me how it is undemocratic? Each member elligible and who turns up gets a vote. Sounds like democracy to me. Just because a larger number of voters are contained in the one association it does not mean the process is undemocratic.

Secondly you make it sound like McCrea has only just discovered that 1/4 of the UUP are in FST. It is a well known fact that the bulk of UUP membership comes from FST. I can't remember if the 1/4 figure came from yourself or the story but 600/2000 is closer to 1/3 in my eyes. McCrea was looking to find a list of those he needed to canvass. It appears the party were a bit lacklustre in keeping fees up to date so rightly so, some of those will not be eligible to vote come the 22nd in that they are not technically fully paid up members any more.


I wonder why so many FST unionist feel associatied in the party compared with membership elsewhere in the country? Would it have anything to do with a social aspect due to the rural nature of the constituency? Perhaps the attempts at ethnic cleansing in border areas have driven the unionists of this constituency to bind together to form a large cohesive unit to show a united front against vile ethnic cleansers?

2000 (total uup membership) - 600 (FST) - 135 (Lagan Valley) = 1265

Divide 1265 by 16 (remaining constituency memberships) and we get 80 roughly.

Are you going to complain about McCrea having nearly double the support that other potential leadership candidates, other than in FST, would have had?
 

picador

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Wow! How very unlike you to misrepresent a story again to meet your own needs.

Firstly explain to me how it is undemocratic? Each member elligible and who turns up gets a vote. Sounds like democracy to me. Just because a larger number of voters are contained in the one association it does not mean the process is undemocratic.
You mean, you really can't see the anomaly!!??

Secondly you make it sound like McCrea has only just discovered that 1/4 of the UUP are in FST. It is a well known fact that the bulk of UUP membership comes from FST. I can't remember if the 1/4 figure came from yourself or the story but 600/2000 is closer to 1/3 in my eyes. McCrea was looking to find a list of those he needed to canvass. It appears the party were a bit lacklustre in keeping fees up to date so rightly so, some of those will not be eligible to vote come the 22nd in that they are not technically fully paid up members any more.
Why would it be well-known if the membership lists are kept secret?

I wonder why so many FST unionist feel associatied in the party compared with membership elsewhere in the country? Would it have anything to do with a social aspect due to the rural nature of the constituency? Perhaps the attempts at ethnic cleansing in border areas have driven the unionists of this constituency to bind together to form a large cohesive unit to show a united front against vile ethnic cleansers?
Oh, do spare us the mope-act. You've been spending too long on the FAIR website - or its Fermanagh equivalent.

Perhaps the reason there are so many in F & ST is because Tom Elliot has known for sometime that he wants to be leader and has been going round recruiting people.

2000 (total uup membership) - 600 (FST) - 135 (Lagan Valley) = 1265

Divide 1265 by 16 (remaining constituency memberships) and we get 80 roughly.

Are you going to complain about McCrea having nearly double the support that other potential leadership candidates, other than in FST, would have had?
In that case the party is screwed!
 

Cabbage/Turnip

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Wow! How very unlike you to misrepresent a story again to meet your own needs.

Firstly explain to me how it is undemocratic? Each member elligible and who turns up gets a vote. Sounds like democracy to me. Just because a larger number of voters are contained in the one association it does not mean the process is undemocratic.

Secondly you make it sound like McCrea has only just discovered that 1/4 of the UUP are in FST. It is a well known fact that the bulk of UUP membership comes from FST. I can't remember if the 1/4 figure came from yourself or the story but 600/2000 is closer to 1/3 in my eyes. McCrea was looking to find a list of those he needed to canvass. It appears the party were a bit lacklustre in keeping fees up to date so rightly so, some of those will not be eligible to vote come the 22nd in that they are not technically fully paid up members any more.


I wonder why so many FST unionist feel associatied in the party compared with membership elsewhere in the country? Would it have anything to do with a social aspect due to the rural nature of the constituency? Perhaps the attempts at ethnic cleansing in border areas have driven the unionists of this constituency to bind together to form a large cohesive unit to show a united front against vile ethnic cleansers?

2000 (total uup membership) - 600 (FST) - 135 (Lagan Valley) = 1265

Divide 1265 by 16 (remaining constituency memberships) and we get 80 roughly.

Are you going to complain about McCrea having nearly double the support that other potential leadership candidates, other than in FST, would have had?
you tend to choose words to instigate hatred.. ethnic cleansing? are you serious? would you say the same thing about coleraine and antrim? Its as simple as time and poor party managment... The UUP have bee non existant in the last 5 years and nationalist population boom in recent years has reached voting age but the two togehter you get a a failing UUP in FST
 

TrueBlue84

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You mean, you really can't see the anomaly!!??

Why would it be well-known if the membership lists are kept secret?

Oh, do spare us the mope-act. You've been spending too long on the FAIR website - or its Fermanagh equivalent.

Perhaps the reason there are so many in F & ST is because Tom Elliot has known for sometime that he wants to be leader and has been going round recruiting people.

In that case the party is screwed!
What alternative do you propose? Do you deny members a vote? Do you only want the executive of the party to vote? Do you want each Association to vote in some sort of electoral college? Perhaps we should dust off the IRA and get them to kill about 500 to even it up a bit eh?

There are 600 members and their votes have to be heard. An electoral college giving FST one vote would leave the potential situation of McCrea will the electoral college but losing the popular vote therefore having more party members against him than for him. How can that be good for a party?

Sorry link me to the Sinn Fein, DUP or SDLP membership lists please? It has long been know that the bulk of UUP membership is based in FST. I don't know if the exact number has been known.

Ahh you chose to ignore my comments and gone for the conspiracy. 1. It has historically been larger. 2. Elliott is a hard working politician who perhaps attracted people into the association that way.

The King Mope tells me to stop moping, I have heard it all now. I don't need FAIR nor have I been on it much other than links on this website.

My questions remain unanswered btw.

And be a good chap and produce membership figures even (dont even need he names) of the other Northern Ireland parties.
 

TrueBlue84

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you tend to choose words to instigate hatred.. ethnic cleansing? are you serious? would you say the same thing about coleraine and antrim? Its as simple as time and poor party managment... The UUP have bee non existant in the last 5 years and nationalist population boom in recent years has reached voting age but the two togehter you get a a failing UUP in FST
That would be demographic change you are talking about. I am talking about the murder and intimidation of isolated Protestant farmers. The unionist FST is not being questioned here.

If Catholics have been forced out to create a Protestant only area where it was mixed before then yes that would be ethnic cleansing just like Londonderry experienced.
 

jackryan

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I have to say Basil McCrea looks like a breath of fresh air! Elliot is even blander than empy but after this he'll be elected! The UUP will fall further down the tracks!
 

TrueBlue84

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I have to say Basil McCrea looks like a breath of fresh air! Elliot is even blander than empy but after this he'll be elected! The UUP will fall further down the tracks!
Elliott will oversee a slow decline where McCrea will either speed the decline up or reverse the situation.
 

TrueBlue84

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I have to say Basil McCrea looks like a breath of fresh air! Elliot is even blander than empy but after this he'll be elected! The UUP will fall further down the tracks!
McCrea strikes me as a mix of Boris Johnson and David Cameron. He has a lot of the Cameron poise and speaking ability but then he gets excited and lets his inner Boris out.
 

picador

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What alternative do you propose? Do you deny members a vote? Do you only want the executive of the party to vote? Do you want each Association to vote in some sort of electoral college? Perhaps we should dust off the IRA and get them to kill about 500 to even it up a bit eh?
It's the DUP you should be worried about

There are 600 members and their votes have to be heard. An electoral college giving FST one vote would leave the potential situation of McCrea will the electoral college but losing the popular vote therefore having more party members against him than for him. How can that be good for a party?
It would be better than having an unrepresentative country n' western clique hijack the party.

Sorry link me to the Sinn Fein, DUP or SDLP membership lists please? It has long been know that the bulk of UUP membership is based in FST. I don't know if the exact number has been known.
Basil McCrea hd to threaten legal action before he was given access to the membership list. That is absolutely ridiculous.

Ahh you chose to ignore my comments and gone for the conspiracy. 1. It has historically been larger. 2. Elliott is a hard working politician who perhaps attracted people into the association that way.
Good old Tom. On a winner now!


The King Mope tells me to stop moping, I have heard it all now. I don't need FAIR nor have I been on it much other than links on this website.

My questions remain unanswered btw.

And be a good chap and produce membership figures even (dont even need he names) of the other Northern Ireland parties.
Do your own research.

BTW how many would be in the F & ST Association were it not for this 'ethnic cleansing' you speak of - 10,000, 20,000?
 
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TrueBlue84

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It's the DUP you should be worried about

It would be better than having an unrepresentative culchie clique hijack the party.

Basil McCrea hd to threaten legal action before he was given access to the membership list. That is absolutely ridiculous.

Good old Tom. On a winner now!

Do your own research.
How very unlike you picachu, avoiding questions... oh wait that is what you do everytime you get caught out.

So no alternative then? Just yapping for the sake of it then? And are you suggesting the DUP go out and kill 500 UUP members in FST?

Ahh I'm guessing you only like democracy when it suits yourself.

Regarding the culchie clique - if they are the establisment how do they highjack the party?

Why was Basil not given the list? Because the establisment don't like him and view him as a troublemaker. Again you go with the negatives rather than both sides getting together and having an arrangement. Perhaps the establisment had legal ground not to show the list such as data protection. If you gave details would you like a leadership contestant hounding you for their vote? Maybe you would but not all old unionists would like that.

Umm you said the UUP had a secret membership list... my point is all parties do...

You also made a point that the UUP were in decline. Yes at a representative level but you have not proved they are at a membership level nor have you shown how the other parties have a larger membership.

How do you know that Sinn Fein, DUP, SDLP or Alliance have more than 2000 members?

I look forward to you avoiding these questions and statements with another witty retort about Tom being a dinosaur or such like.
 

TrueBlue84

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It would be better than having an unrepresentative country n' western clique hijack the party.


BTW how many would be in the F & ST Association were it not for this 'ethnic cleansing' you speak of - 10,000, 20,000?
Umm probably between 60 - 135... I know its hard for you to understand numbers and logic.

Nice to see you change your culchie slur to a country n' western slur.

I guess a citizen is only a citizen if they are a picador clone and follow all the interests you hold dear
 

picador

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How very unlike you picachu, avoiding questions... oh wait that is what you do everytime you get caught out.

So no alternative then? Just yapping for the sake of it then? And are you suggesting the DUP go out and kill 500 UUP members in FST?

Ahh I'm guessing you only like democracy when it suits yourself.

Regarding the culchie clique - if they are the establisment how do they highjack the party?

Why was Basil not given the list? Because the establisment don't like him and view him as a troublemaker. Again you go with the negatives rather than both sides getting together and having an arrangement. Perhaps the establisment had legal ground not to show the list such as data protection. If you gave details would you like a leadership contestant hounding you for their vote? Maybe you would but not all old unionists would like that.

Umm you said the UUP had a secret membership list... my point is all parties do...

You also made a point that the UUP were in decline. Yes at a representative level but you have not proved they are at a membership level nor have you shown how the other parties have a larger membership.

How do you know that Sinn Fein, DUP, SDLP or Alliance have more than 2000 members?

I look forward to you avoiding these questions and statements with another witty retort about Tom being a dinosaur or such like.
You asked me one question which I answered. It is undemocratic because the membership is heavily stacked. It is also undemocratic because one of the challengers is at a major disadvantage and does not know who he has to canvas until the last minute.

If you want to know how many are in other parties I suggest you find out yourself. This thread relates to the UUP.
 

TrueBlue84

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You asked me one question which I answered. It is undemocratic because the membership is heavily stacked. It is also undemocratic because one of the challengers is at a major disadvantage and does not know who he has to canvas until the last minute.

If you want to know how many are in other parties I suggest you find out yourself. This thread relates to the UUP.
1 member 1 vote = democracy

Oh crap, news just in one of the challengers is at a major disadvantage because picachu doesn't like his accent or that he likes country and western and cannot speak in the media very well!

Yeah I forgot that the second the leadership battle was announced that all the UUP members stopped reading newspapers or watching the news and were basically waiting for a knock on the door to be given a personal one to one chat with the leadership candidates. Silly me.

Que United Ireland referendum 2087 - the ghost of picador standing at the polling office lamenting how the resurgent unionist vote is undemocratic as it is stacked against the poorly numbered republican vote
 


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