Only a new Taoiseach can force early election?

FutureTaoiseach

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Despite speculation about a January election, the reality remains that it will not happen. For it to do so, the Constitution requires the Taoiseach to ask the President to dissolve Dail Eireann, which she can refuse if An Taoiseach has lost his overall-majority. An Taoiseach stated today in the Dail that he would seek a dissolution probably in March after the "budgetary process" has been concluded. However, the constitutional-reality is that he cannot be forced to call an election.
Bunreacht na hEireann Article 13.2.2. said:
2° The President may in his absolute discretion refuse to dissolve Dáil Éireann on the advice of a Taoiseach who has ceased to retain the support of a majority in Dail Eireann.
In that context, the only way to force an early General Election is for all three of the following to come to pass:

- An Taoiseach loses a motion of confidence.
- Dail Eireann elects a new Taoiseach.
- New Taoiseach goes to the Park to seek a dissolution of Dail Eireann from President McAleese.
- President McAleese gives her consent to a dissolution which she can refuse if the new Taoiseach lacks the support of an overall-majority.

So what are the prospects that there will not in fact be a GE in January or indeed until FF say so?
 


Riadach

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Despite speculation about a January election, the reality remains that it will not happen. For it to do so, the Constitution requires the Taoiseach to ask the President to dissolve Dail Eireann, which she can refuse if An Taoiseach has lost his overall-majority. An Taoiseach stated today in the Dail that he would seek a dissolution probably in March after the "budgetary process" has been concluded. However, the constitutional-reality is that he cannot be forced to call an election.

In that context, the only way to force an early General Election is for all three of the following to come to pass:

- An Taoiseach loses a motion of confidence.
- Dail Eireann elects a new Taoiseach.
- New Taoiseach goes to the Park to seek a dissolution of Dail Eireann from President McAleese.
- President McAleese gives her consent to a dissolution which she can refuse if the new Taoiseach lacks the support of an overall-majority.

So what are the prospects that there will not in fact be a GE in January or indeed until FF say so?
What happens if he loses a vote of no confidence and no one has sufficient support to be elected Taoiseach? Surely an election is called then?
 

FutureTaoiseach

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What happens if he loses a vote of no confidence and no one has sufficient support to be elected Taoiseach? Surely an election is called then?
The President can only be forced to call a GE if asked to do so by a majority-Taoiseach. Unless that happens, a motion of no confidence cannot force an early GE.
 

sport02

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A question if someone can anwser, is it plausable for FF to change their leader after the budget, but have Brian Cowen as Taoiseach right up until the election starts?
 

Grumpy Jack

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The President can only be forced to call a GE if asked to do so by a majority-Taoiseach. Unless that happens, a motion of no confidence cannot force an early GE.
Charlie Haughey was a minority taoiseach when he went to the Park in 1989.
 

ItsLehmansWotDoneIt

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I can't take another 3 days of these morons. 3 months would be too unbearable to contemplate.
 

FutureTaoiseach

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Charlie Haughey was a minority taoiseach when he went to the Park in 1989.
Yes but Hillary had the power to veto a dissolution/election because Haughey had no majority.
olamp said:
If the budget is defeated would that do it?
It would not force an election constitutionally.
 

QuizMaster

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Wow what an idiotic OP.
The Taoiseach loses his/her majority in the Dail, they can then request a dissolution.
The President could refuse alright, but if the Dail has become ungovernable, there is no good reason for them to do so.

After the budget is passed, the Green Party cross the floor and the Taoiseach is then without a majority. Duhh that wasn't too hard.
 

Riadach

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The President can only be forced to call a GE if asked to do so by a majority-Taoiseach. Unless that happens, a motion of no confidence cannot force an early GE.
If he loses the majority, are you saying that an election cannot be called? Are we stuck with the same dáil for ever? Surely there is a mechanism during a hung dáil, wherein no individual commands a majority, that allows the President to dissolve it.

There is also the possibility of a temporary caretaker taoiseach to replace Cowen, just so he can go to the park and ask the president for a dissolution.
 

sport02

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Wow what an idiotic OP.
The Taoiseach loses his/her majority in the Dail, they can then request a dissolution.
The President could refuse alright, but if the Dail has become ungovernable, there is no good reason for them to do so.

After the budget is passed, the Green Party cross the floor and the Taoiseach is then without a majority. Duhh that wasn't too hard.
Quizmaster you are a green supporter, aren't you?

How do you feel about the dishonest and misleading behaviour of the Greens yesterday?
 

Trophonius

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President can refuse to dissolve Dail if Taoiseach lost no confidence vote. A budget defeat normally results in the dissolution of the Dail because it means that no financial plan for the following year is in place. No country can run without a financial plan for the coming year. Therefore an election is held in order to to get a new government with a working majority to pass a budget.
 

picador

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Wow what an idiotic OP.
The Taoiseach loses his/her majority in the Dail, they can then request a dissolution.
The President could refuse alright, but if the Dail has become ungovernable, there is no good reason for them to do so.

After the budget is passed, the Green Party cross the floor and the Taoiseach is then without a majority. Duhh that wasn't too hard.
Surely the resoan the President has that discretionary power (to veto a dissolution) is to allow the other parties the opportunity to form a government / elect a new Taosieach as happened in 1994. That situation does not arise here as 1. we are approaching the tail-end of the parliamentary cycle 2. a FG / Labour / Green / SF coalition is highly implausible
 

QuizMaster

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The president can refuse a dissolution, but in reality would only do so if it was being requested for spurious reasons.
After the Greens cross the floor the Taoiseach can no longer govern. We can reasonably expect that she would not refuse to dissolve.
 

ocoonassa

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If a few hundred thousand of us showed up on Budget Day they'd crap themselves. We could make them call a snap election nice and peaceably without too much bother I reckon.
 

FutureTaoiseach

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If he loses the majority, are you saying that an election cannot be called? Are we stuck with the same dáil for ever? Surely there is a mechanism during a hung dáil, wherein no individual commands a majority, that allows the President to dissolve it.

There is also the possibility of a temporary caretaker taoiseach to replace Cowen, just so he can go to the park and ask the president for a dissolution.
What I'm saying is that until Cowen is replaced as Taoiseach, he can block a GE until June 2012.
 
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More rambling nonsense from "Future Taoiseach", current moron.

Oh, and as if that wasn't enough he's a racist as well. Nothing to see here folks, move along.
 

corelli

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A question if someone can anwser, is it plausable for FF to change their leader after the budget, but have Brian Cowen as Taoiseach right up until the election starts?
Yes, why not? Happened before, from memory, though I can't remember who. It is merely convention that the party leader is nominated Taoiseach. The Constitutional issue is which person wins the vote in the Dail election for Taoiseach.
 


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