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Organised Crime in Ireland: What can be done?


LDF

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May 28, 2007
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4,171
We've been here before. In the wake of Veronica Guerin's and Jerry McCabe's deaths Governments moved quickly to introduce new legislation to help Gardai deal with criminal/terrorist organisations. Governments like to be seen "doing something". It's likely that the current Government will move to do something following last night's brutal murder of a Garda. So, what should they do?

Well, the Gardai already know a great deal about the structure of organised crime in Ireland. Just last November the Garda Commissioner spoke to the Oireachtas Justice Committee. He stated that there were about 25 organised crime gangs (OCG's) in Ireland. Each OCG typically had between 6 and 12 leading members - 300 leading gang members in Ireland. We're not overwhelmed with serious criminals in Ireland but they seem to have the run of the place.

I think there's a few things which can and should be done:-

-The Government should legislate to introduce 30 day detention for those suspected of engaging in organised criminal activity. Taking those people off the streets for a significant period of time would give Gardai the time and space to investigate their activities and might encourage those with informaiton to speak to Gardai. We have plenty of empty army barracks througout the country. We should put the space to good use.

-Focus should be placed on the "white collar" crooks who provide support services to the OCG's - accountants and lawyers etc. I don't recall anyone being convicted for aiding and abetting OCG's despite the fact that the OCG's could not function without them. Anti-Money Laundering legislation currently on the statute books should be reviewed and amended if necessary.

-Search warrant legislation should be amended to allow Gardai follow leads generated during one search without them having to go back to the Courts for another search warrant i.e. search warrants should be person specific rather than place specific.

-The government should allocate some of the capital budget to developing the Gardai's IT resources. Over the coming days the Govt will be attacked for cutting Gardai numbers and closing Garda Stations. They should not be distracted by that. Instead, they should urgently review how the NYPD use technology to fight crime and move quickly to adopt the same practices to Ireland.

FG is traditionally seen as the Law and Order Party. The next few weeks and months will confirm if that's a myth or not.





Callinan: 25 organised crime gangs in country | Irish Examiner

ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/software/solutions/pdfs/ODB-0144-01F.pdf
 


TimBuckII

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Yes I am
I think there's a few things which can and should be done:-

-The Government should legislate to introduce 30 day detention for those suspected of engaging in organised criminal activity. Taking those people off the streets for a significant period of time would give Gardai the time and space to investigate their activities and might encourage those with informaiton to speak to Gardai. We have plenty of empty army barracks througout the country. We should put the space to good use.

Can't agree with this. It's open to wide sprad abuse.
 

Analyzer

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Feb 14, 2011
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Why get rid of organized crime ? It would be a retrograde step that would undermine the aggregate gravy train of the legal profession....
 

LDF

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Can't agree with this. It's open to wide sprad abuse.
Not necessarily. The individuals detained would not be detained for the purposes of questioning and would have access to legal representation. A lot of people who oppose longer terms of detainment probably do so with reference to the historic internment practices in NI. I thnk we should get over it.
 

Astral Peaks

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Good OP LDF.

I agree with most of what you say apart from the internment suggestion at the start.
 

TimBuckII

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Yes I am
Not necessarily. The individuals detained would not be detained for the purposes of questioning and would have access to legal representation. A lot of people who oppose longer terms of detainment probably do so with reference to the historic internment practices in NI. I thnk we should get over it.
Current. Not only there but in the UK and USA too. It's a political tool. If not at the start it becomes one.
 

EUrJokingMeRight

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11,838
Organised crime is way down the priority list. Organised banking cartels and inefficient regulators are the single biggest threat to the state.
 

LDF

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Organised crime is way down the priority list. Organised banking cartels and inefficient regulators are the single biggest threat to the state.
No bank manager ever shot a member of the Gardaí. Your point is populist nonsense.
 

niall78

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Sep 10, 2010
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11,283
Legalising drugs with strict regulation would go a long way towards eradicating crime gangs in this and every country. Likewise the sex trade. Taking the money out of the shadow economy takes away the raison d'etre of most of these gangs.
 

Analyzer

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The first step to dealing with the problem....

SACK THAT LAZY MUPPET SHATTER.

SHATTER = LAZY !!!!
 

Analyzer

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Legalizing marajuana consumption, on the basis of licenses issued by local authorities would reduce the volume of money going into drugs gangs.

Councils in rural areas can opt out.

Councils with a more liberal composition can allow marajuana cafes in their areas.

Why are not the so called liberals in Dun Laoghaire and Fingal not doing indicating their views on this ?

Instead there is one TD in Roscommon making it an issue.
 

Disillusioned democrat

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Mar 16, 2010
Messages
15,732
Simple - get rid of cash.

Between them love and cash are to blame for 90%+ of all crime. Take cash away and create a full audit trail of all incomes/outcomes and crimes involving: robbery, social welfare fraud, tax evasion, drug dealing, etc., just disappear over-night.

The technology exists - it's in my pocket even as we speak. Some "civil liberties" would get the crap kicked out of them, but nothing that (a) the innocent need to fear and (b) that outweighs the horror of a police officer being gunned down defending "cash".
 
Last edited:

Druidess

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Legalising drugs with strict regulation would go a long way towards eradicating crime gangs in this and every country. Likewise the sex trade. Taking the money out of the shadow economy takes away the raison d'etre of most of these gangs.
Yes, sex work needs to be legalised. But we need to learn lessons from the mistakes of those who tried it but found that the criminal gangs still participated in exploitation and trafficking.

There needs to be zero tolerance of the illegal and unregulated sex trade which should place the onus on the client to ensure they visit a licenced brothel.

Brothels should be staffed only by those with long term residency or Irish nationality, to decrease trafficking.

No one with a criminal record may own or,adage a brothel and licences should be up for renewal annually.
 

ticketyboo

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Oct 21, 2011
Messages
5,042
We've been here before. In the wake of Veronica Guerin's and Jerry McCabe's deaths Governments moved quickly to introduce new legislation to help Gardai deal with criminal/terrorist organisations. Governments like to be seen "doing something". It's likely that the current Government will move to do something following last night's brutal murder of a Garda. So, what should they do?

Well, the Gardai already know a great deal about the structure of organised crime in Ireland. Just last November the Garda Commissioner spoke to the Oireachtas Justice Committee. He stated that there were about 25 organised crime gangs (OCG's) in Ireland. Each OCG typically had between 6 and 12 leading members - 300 leading gang members in Ireland. We're not overwhelmed with serious criminals in Ireland but they seem to have the run of the place.

I think there's a few things which can and should be done:-

-The Government should legislate to introduce 30 day detention for those suspected of engaging in organised criminal activity. Taking those people off the streets for a significant period of time would give Gardai the time and space to investigate their activities and might encourage those with informaiton to speak to Gardai. We have plenty of empty army barracks througout the country. We should put the space to good use.

-Focus should be placed on the "white collar" crooks who provide support services to the OCG's - accountants and lawyers etc. I don't recall anyone being convicted for aiding and abetting OCG's despite the fact that the OCG's could not function without them. Anti-Money Laundering legislation currently on the statute books should be reviewed and amended if necessary.

-Search warrant legislation should be amended to allow Gardai follow leads generated during one search without them having to go back to the Courts for another search warrant i.e. search warrants should be person specific rather than place specific.

-The government should allocate some of the capital budget to developing the Gardai's IT resources. Over the coming days the Govt will be attacked for cutting Gardai numbers and closing Garda Stations. They should not be distracted by that. Instead, they should urgently review how the NYPD use technology to fight crime and move quickly to adopt the same practices to Ireland.

FG is traditionally seen as the Law and Order Party. The next few weeks and months will confirm if that's a myth or not.

The 30 day detention proposal absolutely would be open to abuse, and I could nearly guarantee that somewhere down the line it will be abused. Look North if you don't believe me.
A friend of mine, back in the day, discovered the RUC had a seven day detention order applied for in his name. He wasn't living at home at the time, so he just lay low. The order was never acted on. This was an entirely innocent man, but false charges had been made against him in the past by a supergrass and the case collapsed in a farce. He told me that basically they would send a team out to pick up.....Joe Bloggs...shake the trees a bit and see what might fall out.
Proper resources. This at a time when reportedly we are losing one thousand guards. No superintendent's considered opinions, no detention orders. Proper manning and resourcing, be it manpower, forensic expertise, surveillance equipment.
Make copious use of the plea bargain as exists I believe in the US. More lenient sentencing if you can deliver the bigger fish, relocation, etc. Important though, I think under Scots Law informer evidence on its own without corroborating evidence wouldn't be sufficient to secure convictions, so amid your exasperation at the situation you do need to be careful. There is a saying that "better to let 100 guilty go free than jail 1 innocent".





Callinan: 25 organised crime gangs in country | Irish Examiner

ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/software/solutions/pdfs/ODB-0144-01F.pdf
 

Mossy Heneberry

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Joined
Jun 10, 2009
Messages
3,841
We need more prison places.
We need tougher prison sentences.
We need longer sentences for recidivists.
We need judges to do their job.
We need an end to concurrent sentencing in most cases.
We need an end to time off for good behaviour in most cases.
We need mandatory prison sentences for crimes where violence is involved.
We need to ignore the liberal lefty PC so called do gooders and implement the law.
 
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artfoley56

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Mar 24, 2011
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9,660
no concurrent or suspended sentences for those involved in gang related crime and then put them in a highly secure unit with no access to drugs or mobiles.
 

CHUCK FAGAN

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Feb 24, 2011
Messages
172
Stop employing dwarfs and midgets to patrol and police places where people bigger than themselves live.........
 

pippakin

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Joined
Feb 22, 2010
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9,658
Good OP. Except surely laws already exist to extend the length of time someone can be held for questioning? I thought they were somewhere in the anti terrorist legislation. The Brits have them, so do the Americans, and both states have been known to extend their use whenever they feel necessary.
 

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