Other than himself, who is Simon Coveney fooling when it comes to abottion legislate?

petaljam

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Conor_Myers

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Also because there seems to be no other reliable way to allow rape victims to access abortion services within a reasonable timeframe.

There's a good Q&A from the Inst of Obs-Gynaes on the proposals and related issues :
RCPI Obstetricians and gynaecologists Repeal the eighth amendment, Information for the public
That seems like a fairly shoddy reason to remove the right to life of all unborn children because there are depraved rapists out there.

If you wanted to cater for the extreme cases of pregnancies arising from rape you could have a requirement for a sworn affidavit. It wouldn’t stop the determined but it’s a better solution than binning the right to life for every unborn upto 12 weeks.
 

Lúidín

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If you wanted to cater for the extreme cases of pregnancies arising from rape you could have a requirement for a sworn affidavit.
Would women have to swear the affidavits before or after consultation with a medical practitioner? It would be a good boost for the legal business if they were getting referrals from doctors. "I'm prescribing Y and here's a referral to Trouser, Pocket and Cash, Solicitors, who'll authenticate your prescription."
 

petaljam

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That seems like a fairly shoddy reason to remove the right to life of all unborn children because there are depraved rapists out there.
Way to go to ignore the raped woman in favour of the rapist, well done you. Typical.

If you wanted to cater for the extreme cases of pregnancies arising from rape you could have a requirement for a sworn affidavit. It wouldn’t stop the determined but it’s a better solution than binning the right to life for every unborn upto 12 weeks.
Going by the hysteria around how section 9 of POLDP, three or even six doctors, was supposedly going to be an open door to women lying to doctors, there is zero reason to think they would. I can just imagine the meltdown there would be if prolifers were to propose a system claiming to be limited but which would require just an affidavit to get around it.

It is completely transparent that this is simply you taking your own wishes for reality. If that did happen you would be there screaming about how women would just say whatever ot took to get an abortion.
IOW it's a proposal you think you can defeat.

Secondly, as has been pointed out again just now, rape is only one reason for the 12 week availability. Simple acknowledgment of real life is another - legislators writing a law they announce in advance they have no intention of applying discredits the entire justice system.
 

petaljam

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Would women have to swear the affidavits before or after consultation with a medical practitioner? It would be a good boost for the legal business if they were getting referrals from doctors. "I'm prescribing Y and here's a referral to Trouser, Pocket and Cash, Solicitors, who'll authenticate your prescription."
I have long been convinced that a large part of the determination behind the anti repeal thinking is the handy little earner it has been for the legal establishment ever since the 8th was brought in. Is there any other single law that has given rise to anything like the number of court cases of various sorts?
I cant think of anything comparable in France.

Still, if the Irish taxpayer is happy to continue as a milchcow for Messrs Grabbit and Runne of the 4 Goldmines, who am I to object I suppose.
 

Conor_Myers

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Way to go to ignore the raped woman in favour of the rapist, well done you. Typical..
Clearly not what I'm doing but thanks for the lazy cheapshot.

Going by the hysteria around how section 9 of POLDP, three or even six doctors, was supposedly going to be an open door to women lying to doctors, there is zero reason to think they would. I can just imagine the meltdown there would be if prolifers were to propose a system claiming to be limited but which would require just an affidavit to get around it.

It is completely transparent that this is simply you taking your own wishes for reality. If that did happen you would be there screaming about how women would just say whatever ot took to get an abortion.
IOW it's a proposal you think you can defeat.

Secondly, as has been pointed out again just now, rape is only one reason for the 12 week availability. Simple acknowledgment of real life is another - legislators writing a law they announce in advance they have no intention of applying discredits the entire justice system.
It's a proposal that would deal with some extreme scenarios without the necessity to remove protection from every unborn. We are being told this is impossible in order to use emotional blackmail to get people to support 12 weeks on demand proposals that they would never contemplate otherwise.

As for taking abortion pills - it is a legal and logical dead end to say laws that are being broken should be removed especially if it removes protection from an innocent party. Anyone who runs into medical difficulty after taking these pills is entitled to medical assistance but where is the logic in saying protection for unborn life should be removed because some people behave recklessly?
 

MsDaisyC

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That seems like a fairly shoddy reason to remove the right to life of all unborn children because there are depraved rapists out there.

If you wanted to cater for the extreme cases of pregnancies arising from rape you could have a requirement for a sworn affidavit. It wouldn’t stop the determined but it’s a better solution than binning the right to life for every unborn upto 12 weeks.
Then we'd just have more cries from antichoicers about women lying to get abortions.
 

Conor_Myers

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Then we'd just have more cries from antichoicers about women lying to get abortions.
So what. Pro-lifers aren't supporting the 12 weeks either.

If pro-choicers insist on bringing up the hard cases and then dismissing any suggestions that might address those cases than it just looks like these cases are being cynically exploited to force through measures that ordinarily wouldn't be countenanced.
 

fifilawe

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And you haven't heard his latest brainfart yet. He wants obligatory 9 week scans now.
It is high time for Leo to round up the heavy gang and take that spade off Simple Simon.At this rate that hole must be at least 10 metres deep and it could cause a collapse/cave-in for the BlueShirts very early on in the campaign.
 

popular1

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It is high time for Leo to round up the heavy gang and take that spade off Simple Simon.At this rate that hole must be at least 10 metres deep and it could cause a collapse/cave-in for the BlueShirts very early on in the campaign.
As far as I can see there is very little difference between them
They have both made idiot statements this last few weeks
It just gives to show how shallow the pool of talent is
and that's goes fir either party
 

Fats_Portnoy

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Half Nelson

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The abortion pill will still be available and used, even if repeal succeeds.
What will our brave legislators do then?

Why did Coveney not insist on exceptions for sex-selective abortions which will target baby girls?
 

MsDaisyC

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The abortion pill will still be available and used, even if repeal succeeds.
What will our brave legislators do then?

Why did Coveney not insist on exceptions for sex-selective abortions which will target baby girls?
What stats are there for Irish women having abortions on the grounds of sex selection?
 

ger12

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ger12

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ymmek

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For many years as far as i can remember when a woman had a miscarriage at home or in hospital, a priest was never sent for to carry out any kind of ceremony.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
For many years as far as i can remember when a woman had a miscarriage at home or in hospital, a priest was never sent for to carry out any kind of ceremony.
Funny how priests will on the one hand tell you that a foetus is a full human being and yet under no circumstances will they baptise or christen a foetus until it is actually born.

*unconvincing and paradoxical*

If even priests refuse to recognise a foetus as having the same status as a born child then their insistence that a foetus is the same as a born child rings somewhat hollow.
 


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