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Our 15 Gov Cabinet members & their €36m pension pot


robut

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Cabinet pensions worth €36m at market prices - The Irish Times - Tue, Oct 30, 2012

THE 15 MEMBERS of Cabinet will have pension entitlements by the end of the Dáil term that would cost €36,301,205 if bought in the market today, according to an analysis conducted by The Irish Times.

The figures are based on the Government serving its full term to March 9th, 2016. The Taoiseach, Enda Kenny, will be entitled to an annual pension of €100,000 by that date. For a married man of Mr Kenny’s age to buy such a pension today would cost €3,290,720.

He will also be entitled to a lump sum of €139,008, bringing the total value of his pension entitlement to €3,429,728.
This on top of what we are already paying Cowen, Aherne, Harney etc. AND they get paid this pension in some cases in their early 50's?

First off these pensions are unaffordable and just too large for this countries citizens to support. Second of all whatever pension is available should only be paid after the official state retirement age.

We are really barrelling toward another massive crisis in the shape of a Pensions Crisis. All we get from our cabinet above is legal rubbish about they cannot change contracts, they cannot go retrospective. FFS, they are the LAW MAKERS - LEGISLATE, thats what they are being paid for. But of course "Turkeys dont vote for Christmas do they?"
 

laidback

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a spokesman for minister Howlin had 'no comment' to make on the report. I'm not surprised!

the pension figure of €100,000 pa for kenny would not include his teachers pension. he put in a sub for many years and clocked up a pension but didn't do the teaching! there's also be a lumpsum from his teaching service, actual and theoretical.
 

livingstone

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't a cost of €3.3 million for a €100k pension assume that he'd be receiving it for about 33 years. Kenny will be 65 by 2016 - surely it's statistically odd to assume he would live until he's 98?

If you assume a more realistic life expectancy of 80, then surely the actual cost of his pension is half that at about €1.5 million?
 

Dunlin3

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a spokesman for minister Howlin had 'no comment' to make on the report. I'm not surprised!

the pension figure of €100,000 pa for kenny would not include his teachers pension. he put in a sub for many years and clocked up a pension but didn't do the teaching! there's also be a lumpsum from his teaching service, actual and theoretical.
I think he said last year that he wouldn't take the teacher's pension.
 

laidback

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I think he said last year that he wouldn't take the teacher's pension.
i think he said he would defer it to 65. You can get a pension at 60 in teaching if you have left teaching as he has.
 

daveL

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't a cost of €3.3 million for a €100k pension assume that he'd be receiving it for about 33 years. Kenny will be 65 by 2016 - surely it's statistically odd to assume he would live until he's 98?

If you assume a more realistic life expectancy of 80, then surely the actual cost of his pension is half that at about €1.5 million?
what you're highlighting there is the private pension management farce in this country

putting in 300k in to a pension fund does not equate to a pension for 30 years of 10k a year... it equates to about 15 - 20 years of 10k a year

the rest disappears in management and fund fees...
 

Harmonica

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Looked at this in the IT today & they showed it that for a meer 5 years work as a Minister each person gets 26k per year pension for this portion alone.

If Leo Varadkar (I only use him as he easiest to assess due to age & years in the Dail) retired as a politician at the end of this governments 5 year term it would cost over 750K to buy an annuity for his pension. Given he'd be only be a TD/MInister for 9 years at that stage it looks like it costs about 65-70% of gross pay to fund his pension. I think the article mentions that they make no contributions to the Ministerial portion of their pensions.

Given these pensions have been reduced quiet a bit since FF/Greens left it just shows how over the top the pensions we are paying them already are.
 

culmore

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another attack on Kenny, where were you when the damage was being done, Fianna Failure proganda machine is coming to life again, keep throwing dirt and some of it might stick in some peoples minds
 

Dunlin3

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i think he said he would defer it to 65. You can get a pension at 60 in teaching if you have left teaching as he has.
No he said that he would never take it during the election last year. Meehole challenged him on it during the campaign if I remember correctly, hope he sticks to it.
 

tigerben

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And yet all these ministers would argue that the state contributory pension is generous and that's after paying in over 40 years to the pot. But I suppose their worth it !
 

hiding behind a poster

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Cabinet pensions worth €36m at market prices - The Irish Times - Tue, Oct 30, 2012



This on top of what we are already paying Cowen, Aherne, Harney etc. AND they get paid this pension in some cases in their early 50's?
No, they don't. The law has been changed, and in future such pensions will only kick in at normal retirement age.

First off these pensions are unaffordable and just too large for this countries citizens to support. Second of all whatever pension is available should only be paid after the official state retirement age.
It is.

We are really barrelling toward another massive crisis in the shape of a Pensions Crisis. All we get from our cabinet above is legal rubbish about they cannot change contracts, they cannot go retrospective. FFS, they are the LAW MAKERS - LEGISLATE, thats what they are being paid for. But of course "Turkeys dont vote for Christmas do they?"
That's a different issue. The overall pensions crisis facing the country will ultimately dwarf anything to do with political pensions - also it should be noted that the €36 million figure is NOT what's getting paid out in terms of pensions each year, but the putative cost of buying such pensions. The overall cost of Oireachtas pensions last year was something like €8.8 million.

Also, of course, the article neglects to mention that all Oireachtas members make contributions towards funding their pensions, in the form of PRSI and now the Pension Levy.
 

juggernaut

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I get really mad with these lazy articles on the worth of pension pots. They never ever take into account the prsi pension and they always conclude that the public servant is getting paid too much. When the true case is that the pension industry are expensive and inefficent. And they usually get someone in the pension industry to do the sums - that's not vested interests then! And the returns they quote don't exactly match their advertising when they are tryign to recruit people. That said it is a mad that Ministers get for such a short time in office and they shoudln't be able to draw it down until 66 (and I'd make it retrospective).

rant over.

The point is everyone should have access to an affordable, secure pension which gives certainty in old age. I don't begrude public servants their secuirty, I'd just like some too. And I'm not goign to get that through the private pensions sector as presently configuered. We need a state wide system (PRSI plus) that could invest its money in a variety of private pension providers (so all the eggs are not in one basket and the state underwrites a minimum return).
 

hiding behind a poster

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a spokesman for minister Howlin had 'no comment' to make on the report. I'm not surprised!

the pension figure of €100,000 pa for kenny would not include his teachers pension. he put in a sub for many years and clocked up a pension but didn't do the teaching! there's also be a lumpsum from his teaching service, actual and theoretical.
I think Kenny has said he's not gonna claim that pension - but either way, his teaching pension would be based on the contributions he made into it. Just like any other pension.
 

hiding behind a poster

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Looked at this in the IT today & they showed it that for a meer 5 years work as a Minister each person gets 26k per year pension for this portion alone.

If Leo Varadkar (I only use him as he easiest to assess due to age & years in the Dail) retired as a politician at the end of this governments 5 year term it would cost over 750K to buy an annuity for his pension. Given he'd be only be a TD/MInister for 9 years at that stage it looks like it costs about 65-70% of gross pay to fund his pension. I think the article mentions that they make no contributions to the Ministerial portion of their pensions.

Given these pensions have been reduced quiet a bit since FF/Greens left it just shows how over the top the pensions we are paying them already are.
Have you ever considered the amount of work involved, the decisions required, and the level of responsibility attached to being a Minister? They deserve a pension, FFS. You also neglect to mention that Varadkar, who is in his mid-30s now, would not be able to claim that pension till retirement age.
 

juggernaut

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and they never build in contributions already made (rant hat back on) as I said lazy jounralism
 

cyberianpan

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The real issue here is that certain classes of public servant get full pensions after relatively short service - Judges are another one.

Also it exposes the general defined contribution/defined benefit problem - and the fact that public sector of course have the best deal.

cYp
 

robut

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Listening to one of the sunday morning shows on radio this weekend past. It was mentioned that if some one around 25/30 put €250 a month into their pension fund until retirement they would have a pension of about €10,000 a year. However take at least a third off this for fees. The actual pension would come in somewhere around €6000/€7000.

AND BTW: For the record I was not covertly or otherwise hitting out at the Public Service in general in my OP. This is aimed squarely at the upper echelons of the public sector - primarily the politicians and civil service mandarins.

The average worker in either public or private would not have a hope of ever building up a pot of €3.4m in their work life. More like the initial example above?
 

SPN

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We need a state wide system (PRSI plus) that could invest its money in a variety of private pension providers (so all the eggs are not in one basket and the state underwrites a minimum return).
You can fvck right off with that one.

If some people want to gamble on the stock market or bond market, then that is their own business.

The taxpayer should not underwrite a minimum return on their gambling.
 

im axeled

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another attack on Kenny, where were you when the damage was being done, Fianna Failure proganda machine is coming to life again, keep throwing dirt and some of it might stick in some peoples minds
and what did he do before he needed to take a week off to see his kids, yes he gave the ok for a raise in salarys and expenses for himself and the elected and non elected members of the orichtas, (forgive the spelling).
 

SPN

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Have you ever considered the amount of work involved, the decisions required, and the level of responsibility attached to being a Minister? They deserve a pension, FFS. You also neglect to mention that Varadkar, who is in his mid-30s now, would not be able to claim that pension till retirement age.
If they want a pension let them contribute to a pension.

This nonsense of the taxpayer providing defined benefit pensions to people who never contributed them, or only contributed a tiny portion, has to stop.

Pensions are a Ponzi Scheme. If people want to gamble, then let them off.

But let's not put the taxpayer on the hook for it.
 
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