Our broken and unfair income tax system

HarshBuzz

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Link here.

It's probably just stating the bleedin' obvious for most people but:
  1. Low income earners pay too little (over 30% of workers pay no income tax)
  2. The jump from 20% to 40% happens at far too low a salary threshold (the average industrial wage gets you into the highest tax bracket)
  3. Ireland is a high-tax, low service environment for middle earners
  4. 5% of all earners pay over 50% of all income taxes

The tax base is far too narrow in this country. We need to flatten the pyramid and make it fairer and more encouraging to work.

We need:
  1. Low-paid workers to pay some tax
  2. Incentives not to take up work removed (far too many people gaming the SW system)
  3. To retain USC (from a collections standpoint, it's a great tax)
  4. To introduce a third, middle income bracket - my own suggestion is 30% from 35k to 70k

Who in the political spectrum is out there batting for middle income earners?
 


Eire1976

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We definitely need to encourage people into Work. Life on benefits should not be an option.
 

Disillusioned democrat

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The Irish tax system is a convenient political corral and has been for years.

High tax payers are a relatively small number electorally speaking and are almost completely ignored by politicians as they get on with sub-dividing us into public vs private sector, employed vs. welfare dependent, Irish vs "new" Irish, etc. It's almost like an unwritten covenant between the parties - no one represents the cashcow so they can all continue to milk it.
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

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Newstalk masturbating furiously about this, this morning.

They seem terribly upset that people on 18k a year pay 800 pa in income tax (let's ignore all of the indirect taxes). Just how much should someone on under 400 quid a week be paying in income taxes?

Then great emphasis that someone on 75k pays 44 times for income tax...still leaves them with about 44k take home.

Right wing FM and its usual texters in overdrive today
 

making waves

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[*]Low income earners pay too little (over 30% of workers pay no income tax)
I don't think you could accuse Apple of being a 'low income earner'

[*]5% of all earners pay over 50% of all income taxes
Which actually demonstrates how much money 5% of all earners make - and doesn't take into account all the tax dodges they use to avoid paying what they should be paying.

According to the Dept. of Finance in 2012, the top 5% of earners – numbering 108,250 income earners -have total gross earnings of €20.122 billion and earn in excess of €100,000 per year. This group pays total tax (incl USC & PRSI) of €7.145 billion (an effective rate of 36 %.) Average gross earnings among this group are €185,885 per year, with the income range going from €100,000 per year up to the 120 very highest earners, who have average earnings of over €8.612 million per year. The effective rate of income of these individuals has dropped significantly since 2012.
 
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ShoutingIsLeadership

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The Irish tax system is a convenient political corral and has been for years.

High tax payers are a relatively small number electorally speaking and are almost completely ignored by politicians as they get on with sub-dividing us into public vs private sector, employed vs. welfare dependent, Irish vs "new" Irish, etc. It's almost like an unwritten covenant between the parties - no one represents the cashcow so they can all continue to milk it.

Want to swap with some on welfare or low wage? Such rubbish...who is most likely to be squeezed by the current housing crisis? Those on high incomes? Who is most likely to wait for important healthcare?
 

Disillusioned democrat

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Democracy hit the speed bumps in Ireland when political parties like FF and PDs boasted about how many workers they were taking OUT of the tax net.

I believe that all voters should have "skin" in the game, but our democrats seem to believe the best way to succeed is to create a huge cohort of welfare dependents - not just the unemployed, but CA, RA, HAP, supplemental welfare, etc. so that people vote counter-intuitively. Who would care what a country costs to run as long as you're not paying personally, eh?
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

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Democracy hit the speed bumps in Ireland when political parties like FF and PDs boasted about how many workers they were taking OUT of the tax net.

I believe that all voters should have "skin" in the game, but our democrats seem to believe the best way to succeed is to create a huge cohort of welfare dependents - not just the unemployed, but CA, RA, HAP, supplemental welfare, etc. so that people vote counter-intuitively. Who would care what a country costs to run as long as you're not paying personally, eh?
How many welfare dependents were there when we had full employment? Do you think that most people on welfare or low incomes, want to be?

Seriously, engage your brain.
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

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"Low income workers pay too little", says the OP.

How about, "low income workers earn too little"?
 

Jack O Neill

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We definitely need to encourage people into Work. Life on benefits should not be an option.
housing crisis , some of the highest rents in the world in dublin , how do you expect people to work live on 9 euro per hour unless you want irish people to live like our east european/middle eastern friends at 10 to a room .

system is completely broken , high high cost of living ,huge levels of private and state debt , a countryside been depopulated and ignored for the one growth sector in the country , dublin , inflated pubic service and salaries and a state one step away from bankruptcy

there is no solution
 

Disillusioned democrat

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Want to swap with some on welfare or low wage? Such rubbish...who is most likely to be squeezed by the current housing crisis? Those on high incomes? Who is most likely to wait for important healthcare?
I really wish you would stop taking offence on behalf of the down-trodden where none exists.

Where in my post did I say anything like "they're better off" or speak disparagingly about any subset other that politicians???

Those on middle to higher incomes pay a huge price in tax - more than many countries across our peer group - that's a fact that even you couldn't dispute (although God knows you'll try).

As for waiting for important healthcare, you make a good point. The middle income guy will still wait in line with his welfare dependent/low income neighbours unless he/she takes some of his/her after tax income and buys private health insurance - the b4stard!!!
 
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Jack O Neill

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"Low income workers pay too little", says the OP.

How about, "low income workers earn too little"?
the OP is one of our resident blueshirts , he longs like all blueshirts for the return of slavery . Like Hammer he likes to pretend hes an Entrepreneur:roll::roll::roll:
 

wexfordman

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Nov 19, 2006
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7,760
Link here.

It's probably just stating the bleedin' obvious for most people but:
  1. Low income earners pay too little (over 30% of workers pay no income tax)
  2. The jump from 20% to 40% happens at far too low a salary threshold (the average industrial wage gets you into the highest tax bracket)
  3. Ireland is a high-tax, low service environment for middle earners
  4. 5% of all earners pay over 50% of all income taxes

The tax base is far too narrow in this country. We need to flatten the pyramid and make it fairer and more encouraging to work.

We need:
  1. Low-paid workers to pay some tax
  2. Incentives not to take up work removed (far too many people gaming the SW system)
  3. To retain USC (from a collections standpoint, it's a great tax)
  4. To introduce a third, middle income bracket - my own suggestion is 30% from 35k to 70k

Who in the political spectrum is out there batting for middle income earners?
Ah but mm in his ff think in is saying what needs to happen is pensioners need to get a thirty Euro a week increase, guess who's gonna pay for that
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

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I really wish you would taking offence on behalf of the down-trodden where none exists.

Where in my post did I say anything like "they're better off" or speak disparagingly about any subset other that politicians???

Those on middle to higher incomes pay a huge price in tax - more than many countries across our peer group - that's a fact that even you couldn't dispute (although God knows you'll try).

As for waiting for important healthcare, you make a good point. The middle income guy will still wait in line with his welfare dependent/low income neighbours unless he/she takes some of his/her after tax income and buys private health insurance - the b4stard!!!

We have some of the highest inequality of earnings in the developed world. Naturally it follows that high earners will end up paying more income tax than peers (incidentally, have you compared international pension tax deductible arrangements with peers?).

So, you agree that the poor suffer health access outcomes. Good.
 

Henry94.

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We tried cutting taxes before and prices just went up so we eventually ended up with less money and worse services. Plus a disastrous property bubble.

Tax reform may be possible but not is the frenzied "pay-back time" atmosphere that the media will whip up over this report. Every proposed cut must be met with an equivalent increase somewhere else. We know that poor people spend most of their money locally. If we take from them to give to the high-earners and middle-earners we would see an increase in sales of new cars and handbags. Is that a priority while our hospitals are in crisis? Not to me.

Now if someone had a plan to take from the very wealthy and give to the middle then that would be worth supporting.
 

Jack O Neill

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I really wish you would taking offence on behalf of the down-trodden where none exists.

Where in my post did I say anything like "they're better off" or speak disparagingly about any subset other that politicians???

Those on middle to higher incomes pay a huge price in tax - more than many countries across our peer group - that's a fact that even you couldn't dispute (although God knows you'll try).

As for waiting for important healthcare, you make a good point. The middle income guy will still wait in line with his welfare dependent/low income neighbours unless he/she takes some of his/her after tax income and buys private health insurance - the b4stard!!!
Indeed they do , but the reality is we have 50% of our working population earning under 27k per annum and 400000 people on some sort benifits /sceme/scam . Hard to see much room to manoeuvre there
 

Disillusioned democrat

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housing crisis , some of the highest rents in the world in dublin , how do you expect people to work live on 9 euro per hour unless you want irish people to live like our east european/middle eastern friends at 10 to a room .

system is completely broken , high high cost of living ,huge levels of private and state debt , a countryside been depopulated and ignored for the one growth sector in the country , dublin , inflated pubic service and salaries and a state one step away from bankruptcy

there is no solution
There is a solution, but sadly it would seem our political leaders are very, very content with the way this miracle "recovery" has worked out.

In 2011 I was incensed at how corrupt and incompetent FF were in bringing us to the brink of a Greek-style ruin...but the real meaning of corruption only became apparent since FG and their cronies and puppeteers came into power.
 


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