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Our debt levels are decreasing


conservative green

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Oct 1, 2008
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We are still the most indebted nation on the planet per capita though.
Very possibly, but you can't really make that conclusion based on the attached. The reason being it includes the liabilities of IFSC banks which really have nothing to do with the debt levels of Irish citizens. A proper international comparison would need to take these out as they distort the picture for countries like Ireland and Switzerland which have an unusually large 'offshore' financial sector compared to size of population.
 

Eorna

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Nov 24, 2008
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Very possibly, but you can't really make that conclusion based on the attached. The reason being it includes the liabilities of IFSC banks which really have nothing to do with the debt levels of Irish citizens. A proper international comparison would need to take these out as they distort the picture for countries like Ireland and Switzerland which have an unusually large 'offshore' financial sector compared to size of population.
Outside of the IFSC, do we not have the highest private debt per person.
 

seanmacc

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Jan 10, 2009
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Also most of the personal debt is mortgage debt. We don't have the levels of crippling credit card debt they have in the US and UK. The working individual in Ireland who hasn't been hit with too big a pay cut and isn't a compulsive spender isn't too badly off compared to the average Brit or Yank
 

Cassandra Syndrome

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Excuse me, but who is guaranteeing all the liabilities of the Irish Banking System?
 

Cassandra Syndrome

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Very possibly, but you can't really make that conclusion based on the attached. The reason being it includes the liabilities of IFSC banks which really have nothing to do with the debt levels of Irish citizens. .
Who picks up the tab for the banking guarantee that was unleashed a year ago?
 

sharper

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May 3, 2009
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You can't just look at debt levels as an absolute value, it has to be considered relative to growth and inflation.

Debt levels can increase nominally forever so long as growth is faster. This is understood implicitly by people when they take on an expensive mortgage with the expectation of having higher wages in a few years time.

Nominal decreases in debt levels are only good if the economy (and ability to pay) is not decreasing even faster than it. Everyone is familiar with "inflation adjusted" values, you need "deflation adjusted" as well.

Ireland's GDP, disposable income, job security and growth potential have all gone off a cliff. A slight decrease in debt in this context is really not all that fantastic.
 

Cassandra Syndrome

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And I love the way "and financial derivatives" is in small print at the bottom of page 2. (said under a cough).....
 

Digout

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Oct 2, 2008
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I know a lad who bought a former council house in Drimnagh for €640k, thats just one example of the stupidity that was going on.
 

Cassandra Syndrome

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Aug 23, 2009
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You can't just look at debt levels as an absolute value, it has to be considered relative to growth and inflation.

Debt levels can increase nominally forever so long as growth is faster. This is understood implicitly by people when they take on an expensive mortgage with the expectation of having higher wages in a few years time.

Nominal decreases in debt levels are only good if the economy (and ability to pay) is not decreasing even faster than it. Everyone is familiar with "inflation adjusted" values, you need "deflation adjusted" as well.

Ireland's GDP, disposable income, job security and growth potential have all gone off a cliff. A slight decrease in debt in this context is really not all that fantastic.
I know. Its not fantastic. In fact as nation of credit junkies, it is a multiplier in reverse.
 

conservative green

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Oct 1, 2008
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Who picks up the tab for the banking guarantee that was unleashed a year ago?
Excuse me, but who is guaranteeing all the liabilities of the Irish Banking System?
Er, yeah, you've missed the point of what I'm saying. The banking guarantee is for €400bn or so.

The above external debt link indicates total external debt of €1700bn or so. However, this includes external debt of IFSC funds which is probably matched by assets on the other side of the balance sheets of those companies or their parents.

The banking guarantee has nothing got to do with IFSC operations and the IFSC operations have nothing got to do with the real external debt of Irish citizens. As such, frankly, the CSO shouldn't even be quoting this figure. It's misleading and generates a lot of hot air and hysteria.
 
Joined
Dec 31, 2008
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my favorite number is the fact that in March 08 when the biff was min for finance our central bank was owed money, it now owes the ECB and others almost 100bn euros. well done chaps, great work
 
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