“our state.“

Gin Soaked

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Unionists are signed up to the GFA reunification of Ireland process, are they not?

Either Unionists subscribe to the tenets of democracy or they do not - which is it???

The sole purpose of the GFA is to reunify Ireland through peaceful means.

If idiot Unionists like you cause trouble - we Irish will let the brits clean up their own sh1t during the transition period - before the actual hand back of the occupied 6 counties to the Irish people.
I'm not a unionist.

My post was referencing a Loyalist/ troll suggesting a ward by ward vote on whether an area becomes a Unionist micro state, collectively a Unionist statelet. So the nationalists inside such states would basically be an ethnic minority, subject to pressures to sell up and run elsewhere. They would be displaced. That is basically ethnic cleansing.

Any solution to NI that involves subdivision of the 6 counties will descend into ethnic cleansing for nationalists trapped.

No one in the 26 counties really cares about religious identity in the same way. So if Fermanagh , Tyrone and Armagh and Derry become part of the (now) 30 counties , then Dublin will ensure that it's mostly ok.
 


Gin Soaked

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Unionists are signed up to the GFA.

The sole purpose of the GFA is to reunify Ireland through peaceful means.
The DUP really aren't.

The GFA was basically self governance and no more terrorism.

They really did not push any execution of normalisation. Integrated schools would have been an obvious step. As would forced Assembly with no suspension options.

Force kids to grow up together and force grownups to set budgets.
 

Lord Talbot

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What do you think the topics of any negotiations will be about?
There won't be any negotiations before a border poll. The negotiations after, should NI vote for a UI, would concern the formation of the new state, handover of power, etc.
 

Glaucon

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I'm not a unionist.

My post was referencing a Loyalist/ troll suggesting a ward by ward vote on whether an area becomes a Unionist micro state, collectively a Unionist statelet. So the nationalists inside such states would basically be an ethnic minority, subject to pressures to sell up and run elsewhere. They would be displaced. That is basically ethnic cleansing.
Nonsense. A united Ireland would be, as the description indicates, a unified state. If a federated constitution were implemented, the federal government in Dublin would remain sovereign and have a right to intervene with its security forces in case of ethnic cleansing. Such measures would, in any event, be rendered illegal by the courts, which would be subject to federal and European law and forbidden to discriminate against citizens on the basis of their religious or political orientation.

Any solution to NI that involves subdivision of the 6 counties will descend into ethnic cleansing for nationalists trapped.
Are Spanish-speakers 'ethnically cleansed' in the Basque Country? How about Dutch-speakers in Wallonia? Sub-divisions that operate along ethnic or linguistic lines are frequent around the world, including in the European Union. The capital of the EU, Brussels, is a federal region of Belgium with its own parliament and police force.
 
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Gin Soaked

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Nonsense. A united Ireland would be, as description indicates, a unified state. If a federated constitution were implemented, the federal government in Dublin would remain sovereign and have a right to intervene with its security forces in case of ethnic cleansing. Such measures would, in any event, be rendered illegal by the courts, which would be subject to federal and European law and forbidden to discriminate against citizens on the basis of their religious or political orientation.



Are Spanish-speakers 'ethnically cleansed' in the Basque Country? How about Dutch-speakers in Wallonia? Sub-divisions that operate along ethnic or linguistic lines are frequent around the world, including in the European Union. The capital of the EU, Brussels, is a federal region of Belgium with its own parliament and police force.
The original post implied a greater distinction than merely being a region with a distinct culture or language. The Unionist aspect is deeper than that, and more toxic than the examples given.

Finally, let's say you lived deep in one of these "orange counties", with deep cultural dominance, would you feel comfortable? Would you feel that this is a successful implementation of a republic for catholic, protestant and dissenter? It would be an abject failure.
 

Glaucon

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The original post implied a greater distinction than merely being a region with a distinct culture or language. The Unionist aspect is deeper than that, and more toxic than the examples given.

Finally, let's say you lived deep in one of these "orange counties", with deep cultural dominance, would you feel comfortable? Would you feel that this is a successful implementation of a republic for catholic, protestant and dissenter? It would be an abject failure.
Deeper or more "toxic" than the division between Walloons and Flemings? Basques and Spaniards? Serbs and Croats? Unlikely.

If you think a unitary Irish state will lead to anything but severe conflict and violence, you're in cloud cuckoo land. Ulster Unionists will accept the result of a democratic vote but they will not suddenly wake up the day after a referendum and decide to throw out their history, their identity, their beliefs and their desire for self-government.
 

Gin Soaked

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Deeper or more "toxic" than the division between Walloons and Flemings? Basques and Spaniards? Serbs and Croats? Unlikely.

If you think a unitary Irish state will lead to anything but severe conflict and violence, you're in cloud cuckoo land. Ulster Unionists will accept the result of a democratic vote but they will not suddenly wake up the day after a referendum and decide to throw out their history, their identity, their beliefs and their desire for self-government.
So how would the self governance work?

Would the remaining Catholics have any safeguards.

And, what, beyond marching and a fake language would distinguish the region? What laws would be different?

Or is it just pandering? Would policing be autonomous?
 

Dearghoul

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I'm discussing autonomy within a United Ireland here. In any case food producion is pretty irrelevant these days.
It's irrelevant until tariffs are applied, and after, the issue of food security, which wasn't a problem for the UK until Brexit, rapidly makes it one.

Semi autonomy for Six Irish Counties has been an unsuccessful hundred year experiment.

Whatever replaces it will have to take cognizance of that basic fact of life.
 
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EnglishObserver

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If most of the comments on this thread are indicative of the attitudes of The Irish State and it's current population then I predict very real trouble for any emerging United Ireland. I predict substantial problems anyway - but without full accomodation of The ex-Unionist community then the problems will become critical.
 

devonish

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Deeper or more "toxic" than the division between Walloons and Flemings? Basques and Spaniards? Serbs and Croats? Unlikely.

If you think a unitary Irish state will lead to anything but severe conflict and violence, you're in cloud cuckoo land. Ulster Unionists will accept the result of a democratic vote but they will not suddenly wake up the day after a referendum and decide to throw out their history, their identity, their beliefs and their desire for self-government.
Personal preference, if there was a UI would be for central govt, the biggest division isn't North/South, it's the divisions within NI and unless there was a radical change in the type of politician who gets elected in NI then I'd prefer the power and influence they have to be diluted to the maximum extent possible, that's all on the assumption that the SF surge in RoI is temporary. SF in power in the south will make a UI much less attractive to those middle of the road liberal types in NI, Leo was the best advert for a UI.
 

Barroso

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How could a state which was formed on the basis of discrimination even begin to have a common project. The very nature of the state was to discriminate!!!!
No argument here. I didn't state that there was ever the suggestion of a common project, just the inability to form one - for the very reason that you give.
 

McSlaggart

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Personal preference, if there was a UI would be for central govt, the biggest division isn't North/South, it's the divisions within NI and unless there was a radical change in the type of politician who gets elected in NI then I'd prefer the power and influence they have to be diluted to the maximum extent possible, that's all on the assumption that the SF surge in RoI is temporary. SF in power in the south will make a UI much less attractive to those middle of the road liberal types in NI, Leo was the best advert for a UI.
Power in Ireland would be carried out from the center. Northern Ireland is an odd collection of counties with no real logic to its design.
 

Dearghoul

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Power in Ireland would be carried out from the center. Northern Ireland is an odd collection of counties with no real logic to its design.
The logic is, or was, to include just enough of the agricultural hinterland without threatening Protestant hegemony.

It couldn't have been nine or it would have been at risk immediately.

The idea was that this amount of agricultural space allied to a Protestant dominated industrial region was going to make the thing viable.

The Unionists had other ideas.
 

Dearghoul

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If most of the comments on this thread are indicative of the attitudes of The Irish State and it's current population then I predict very real trouble for any emerging United Ireland. I predict substantial problems anyway - but without full accomodation of The ex-Unionist community then the problems will become critical.
If you are actually an 'English observer' rather than a Northern Unionist you would be rubbing your hands in glee at getting rid of this great and useless drain on your coffers.
 

Glaucon

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Power in Ireland would be carried out from the center. Northern Ireland is an odd collection of counties with no real logic to its design.
McSlaggart, this is nonsense. The obvious logic to Northern Ireland's design was to keep as many Ulster Protestants out of a Dublin-run state as possible. Being outnumbered 75 to 25 on the island led to the development of the ''siege mentality'' and the various ills that have attended NI since its creation.

The logic underlying that desire hasn't changed one bit in the intervening 100 years. Indeed, if Unionists had created a Northern Ireland composed only of places like Antrim and East Derry, the question of a united Ireland wouldn't even arise because it would have hardly any support.

To think that, given such a history, a unitary state is a serious proposition is historical illiteracy at its finest. Sinn Féin regularly indulges its electorate in this sort of woolly ''it'll be all right on the night'' type thinking. It's as wrong now as it was in the late 1970s.
 
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EnglishObserver

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If you are actually an 'English observer' rather than a Northern Unionist you would be rubbing your hands in glee at getting rid of this great and useless drain on your coffers.
Another clueless Mick.

I see myself as British not English.

You clowns really need to think up some new little myths to repeat over and over again.
 

EnglishObserver

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Hence the cross of St. George and the moniker.
So if I had a picture of a knife and called myself jackdripper you would conclude I'm a serial killer?

England is where I live - hence the red cross - my identity is British.
 

Dearghoul

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You appear with the George Cross and calling yourself 'English Observer'.

And then come out with 'I see myself as British, not English'...

...And I'm the clueless Mick.
 

Mickeymac

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You appear with the George Cross and calling yourself 'English Observer'.

And then come out with 'I see myself as British, not English'...

...And I'm the clueless Mick.


You have much to learn about mange sir 😂😂
 


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