Our West Brit President Declines To Attend The Soloheadbeg Commeration.


Nebuchadnezzar

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*cough

Phoney War - Wikipedia

Heres one of 8 months ..........are you questioning the accepted length of WW2 as well ?
There were nearly 1 million war casualties during the period September 1939 to May 1940, albeit the majority of those from the innasion of Poland. However, there were also approx 10,000 dead during the course of the invasion of Denmark and Norway. There were also thousands of deaths at sea during that same period(including a relative of mine from who served on the aircraft carrier HMS Courageous sunk 150 SW of Mizen Head on 17th Sept 1939).

2 dead policemen is not a war.
 

parentheses

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I suppose the first Dail is a bit problematic for this State anyway.

The British never recognised the first Dail and this State was not founded from the first Dail.
 

Nebuchadnezzar

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You don't seem to understand that this was a war for Irish Independence. This wasn't about Home Rule. And O'Connell was never an advocate for an Irish Republic. All he wanted was voting rights for Catholics within the United Kingdom. That's completely different to an independent Ireland. There are some, including a few in Dublin politics, who want to be good little subjects of the Queen of England and regret that Ireland had been successful against the British Empire. Perhaps you, like the pseudo-intellectual waffler Higgins, are one of them. If things had been left to wafflers like Higgins and those who foolishly thought that the British would be open to non-violent persuasion, they'd still be waffling in committee rooms in Westminster today. But that would probably suit the neo-Unionists in FF/FG/Labour. Soloheadbeg should be commemorated and Higgins should attend.
It’s a shame to see Daniel O’Connell’s life dismissed like that. You totally ignore the 17 years of his life that he spent campaigning to repeal the Act of Union and to restore an Irish Parliament.

You still haven’t explained why Soloheadbeg is so significant that it deserves the honour more than any other event as the accepted date of the start of the War of Independence.
 

Spirit Of Newgrange

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Leo is doing a reasonable job keeping the FG West Brits in line. Perhaps he ought to make a beeline for the Park and knock some sense into Higgins.
Leo's role as Merkel's attack dog, biting the hand of Teresa May ? FG West Brits want peace and mutual respect for all across these islands. Republican, Orangeman, ROI & UK all trying to do what's best. Sorry Leo. 0/10
 

runwiththewind

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It’s a shame to see Daniel O’Connell’s life dismissed like that. You totally ignore the 17 years of his life that he spent campaigning to repeal the Act of Union and to restore an Irish Parliament.

You still haven’t explained why Soloheadbeg is so significant that it deserves the honour more than any other event as the accepted date of the start of the War of Independence.
And he failed with both.
 

RasherHash

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It’s a shame to see Daniel O’Connell’s life dismissed like that. You totally ignore the 17 years of his life that he spent campaigning to repeal the Act of Union and to restore an Irish Parliament.

You still haven’t explained why Soloheadbeg is so significant that it deserves the honour more than any other event as the accepted date of the start of the War of Independence.
O'Connell has to be seen in the context of peaceful campaigning for independence and occasional armed resistance that eventually combined and amounted to freedom, limited though it was.

In O'Connell's time the people were at such a low ebb the notion of armed resistance made no sense, they had to be brought up several levels before they could have raised an army of the capabilities of 1916-22.
 

jmcc

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O'Connell has to be seen in the context of peaceful campaigning for independence and occasional armed resistance that eventually combined and amounted to freedom, limited though it was.
O'Connell wasn't campaigning for Independence. He was campaigning for Home Rule. There are still some, perhaps like Nebuchadnezzar, who would prefer that Home Rule with Ireland as part of the UK was achieved. O'Connell was not an Irish Republican and he was even was a member of the Loyalist Yeomanry militia.
 
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Disillusioned democrat

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We had Canadians with us over xmas and they couldn't get over Higgins. They thought he was like something out of a fantasy novel with the elf like features and massive pot belly.

People are laughing at this old yoke.:mad2::mad2:

He does not give off a good image abroad. We're a young vibrant confident nation.
I agree 100%

He does represent the "state" though - he's made a very good living out of spending other peoples' money and preaching a "do as I say, not as I do" sermon to people who seem oblivious to the irony of his status as a millionaire socialist.

He's the perfect president for the government, who could call "bullshît" on his hypocrisy at any stage, so they know he'll toe the line.
 

Carbontax

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Our West Brit President has refused to attend the Soloheadbeg Commemoration on January 21st. No explanation given. The is the same President who eulogised over the wanton slaughter of thousands of Irishmen on the Western Front in the cause of British imperialism. No doubt Higgins will get a pat on the back from the Brits for this like the good dog he is.

From the Sunday Business Post...........

Higgins declines to attend commemoration of Soloheadbeg ambush.

President Michael D. Higgins has turned down an invitation to attend the 100th anniversary of the IRA ambush which started the War of Independence........

..... Higgins has turned down the invite to the event which was sent to him by the Soloheadbeg Parish Centenary Commemoration Committee. The Committee's souvenir booklet editor, Michael Ryan, said they were "a bit peeved" at the President's decision. "We went to a lot of great lengths in our invitation to explain that the Commemoration would be broad based......".
Is it a State Commeration?
 

Talk Back

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The coincidence of the convening of the first Dáil and Soloheadbeg were independent events. The attack was not timed to coincide with the Dáil. That Dáil had not declared war against Britain or yet discussed the matter. Although it was known that a delivery of explosives was due soon that date was not known. It was only when a lookout reported the loading of the gelignite on that morning that the final decision to carry out the attack was taken. It had nothing to do with the Dáil. Associating an unauthorised brutal attack with the first day of the states first parliament and also deeming that same day to be the first day of the War of Independence did nothing for legitimacy of our state and its credentials as a democratic law based republic.

.....and as for it being the first day of that war?

No combat or any significant military action took place for a further 2 months after the attack. What sort of a war is that?
Just so you know - the current 26 county State and its 26 county Oireachtas were established in 1922 by an Act of the UK Government, and its power was vested in an English King.

The 32 county Irish Republic and the 32 county Dail Eireann were established in 1918 by the vote of the people, and its power was vested in the people of Ireland.
 

5455426

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Michael D has clearly been one of our best Presidents ! A lot of angry people on this tread talking through their HXLES !!
 

cricket

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Michael D has clearly been one of our best Presidents ! A lot of angry people on this tread talking through their HXLES !!
In some cases, it's not a bad thing for them. Much cheaper than going for therapy at €180 per session.
 

Beachcomber

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Our West Brit President has refused to attend the Soloheadbeg Commemoration on January 21st. No explanation given. The is the same President who eulogised over the wanton slaughter of thousands of Irishmen on the Western Front in the cause of British imperialism. No doubt Higgins will get a pat on the back from the Brits for this like the good dog he is.

From the Sunday Business Post...........

Higgins declines to attend commemoration of Soloheadbeg ambush.

President Michael D. Higgins has turned down an invitation to attend the 100th anniversary of the IRA ambush which started the War of Independence........

..... Higgins has turned down the invite to the event which was sent to him by the Soloheadbeg Parish Centenary Commemoration Committee. The Committee's souvenir booklet editor, Michael Ryan, said they were "a bit peeved" at the President's decision. "We went to a lot of great lengths in our invitation to explain that the Commemoration would be broad based......".

Why should he attend something that commemorates "war" criminals?

Breen:
"Treacy had stated to me that the only way of starting a war was to kill someone, and we wanted to start a war, so we intended to kill some of the police whom we looked upon as the foremost and most important branch of the enemy forces.... The only regret that we had following the ambush was that there were only two policemen in it, instead of the six we had expected."
 

Nebuchadnezzar

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O'Connell wasn't campaigning for Independence. He was campaigning for Home Rule. There are still some, perhaps like Nebuchadnezzar, who would prefer that Home Rule with Ireland as part of the UK was achieved. O'Connell was not an Irish Republican and he was even was a member of the Loyalist Yeomanry militia.
I think your attempt to dismiss O’Connell as some sort of castle Catholic is very unfair.

As a young man O’Connell was a member of the militia but he was also, it seems, a United Irishman.

In 1844 in conversation at Derrynane with Young Irelanders John O’Hagan and John Pigot, O’Connnell said that he “was a yeoman in ‘98 but never the less a United Irishman”.

In the early 1840s he said to O’Neill Daunt “I was myself a United Irishman” and that he “would have in all probability been hanged. I learnt much by being a looker on about that time....my friend Richard Newton Bennett was an adjunct to the Directory of the United Irishmen”.

In April 1831 he told the poet Thomas Moore in conversation about Lord Edward Fitzgerald and the events of 1798 that “a colonel of artillery sold us 800 muskets from ordinance at a guinea a piece”.


Supplementing O’Connells own words we have evidence from other sources that corroborate his involvement. Barrister Richard Hobart gave an account of having met “a Mr O’Connell or Connell” at a neighbours house Mr Richard Newton Bennett(O’Connell’sClose friend of that time as mentioned by himself above)....

...A member of the Lawyer’s Artillery(O’Connell’s unit)arrived and got them to join in the funeral of an unnamed United Irishman. On their way Hobart overheard Bennett propose to O’Connell “that they should deliver up” to the United Irishmen the canon of the Lawyers Corps.

Another source of the same event came from an attorney Mr J.B Palmer who at dinner at a house in Charlemont Street on the 30th April 1797 overheard a conversation between Mr O’Connell and others of the Lawyer’s Artillery in which it was proposed and agreed to take out the guns and leave them for the rebels.

In later years he condemned the United Irishmen and also Robert Emmett but that may have been said for a British audience at least in part to assuage concerns about catholic loyalty.

However, the choice of the Hill of Tara and Clontarf as venues for the Monster Meetings marked clearly his national aspirations for those that understood the meaning of those places.

Ref Historical Revision: Was O'Connell a United Irishman?

C. J. Woods
Irish Historical Studies
Vol. 35, No. 138 (Nov., 2006), pp. 173-183
 

Nebuchadnezzar

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Just so you know - the current 26 county State and its 26 county Oireachtas were established in 1922 by an Act of the UK Government, and its power was vested in an English King.

The 32 county Irish Republic and the 32 county Dail Eireann were established in 1918 by the vote of the people, and its power was vested in the people of Ireland.
And eventually a 32 county republic will probably be established thanks to British idiocy, demographics and gentle persuasion rather than by cataclysmic war.
 

Buchaill Dana

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The coincidence of the convening of the first Dáil and Soloheadbeg were independent events. The attack was not timed to coincide with the Dáil. That Dáil had not declared war against Britain or yet discussed the matter. Although it was known that a delivery of explosives was due soon that date was not known. It was only when a lookout reported the loading of the gelignite on that morning that the final decision to carry out the attack was taken. It had nothing to do with the Dáil. Associating an unauthorised brutal attack with the first day of the states first parliament and also deeming that same day to be the first day of the War of Independence did nothing for legitimacy of our state and its credentials as a democratic law based republic.

.....and as for it being the first day of that war?

No combat or any significant military action took place for a further 2 months after the attack. What sort of a war is that?
But it was the first action of the war...
 

bang bang

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Why should he attend something that commemorates "war" criminals?

Breen:
"Treacy had stated to me that the only way of starting a war was to kill someone, and we wanted to start a war, so we intended to kill some of the police whom we looked upon as the foremost and most important branch of the enemy forces.... The only regret that we had following the ambush was that there were only two policemen in it, instead of the six we had expected."
An empire lover calling g Irish Republicans war criminal, oh the irony.
 

Antóin Mac Comháin

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Where do I even begin with this? For a start it is not all that clear what Abbas's actual views are but I wouldn't place too much reliance on something published in an American Jewish magazine without knowing a lot more about the integrity of their editorial slant and of the author, particularly as the NYT seems to be portraying him rather differently.

However it is clear that it is common cause that he isn't actually a holocaust denier.
The history of the Gypsies, the Jews and the Holocaust are inseparable.

In the doctoral thesis, Abbas describes the number of Jews murdered in the Nazi Holocaust as agreed upon by mainstream historians, six millions, as "fantastic lie". In the book, he wrote:

‘’It seems that the interest of the Zionist movement, however, is to inflate this figure of Holocaust deaths so that their gains will be greater. This led them to emphasize this figure , (six million), in order to gain the solidarity of international public opinion with Zionism. Many scholars have debated the figure of six million and reached stunning conclusions — fixing the number of Jewish victims at only a few hundred thousand.’’

Abbas also wrote:

‘’Following the war, word was spread that six million Jews were amongst the victims and that a war of extermination was aimed primarily at the Jews. The truth is that no one can either confirm or deny this figure. In other words, it is possible that the number of Jewish victims reached six million, but at the same time it is possible that the figure is much smaller, below one million.’’

Abbas quotes historian Raul Hilberg to support his allegations that fewer than one million Jews were killed. However, Rafael Medoff of the David S. Wyman Institute for Holocaust Studies denied the assertion that "The historian and author, Raoul Hilberg, thinks that the figure does not exceed 890,000", and said this is "utterly false". He wrote that "Professor Hilberg, a distinguished historian and author of the classic study The Destruction of the European Jews, has never said or written any such thing."

Abbas also raised doubts regarding the existence of the gas chambers, quoting Robert Faurisson, on the nonexistence of gas chambers.

Additionally, he stated that the much smaller number of Jews which he reportedly admitted that the Germans did massacre, were actually the victims of a Zionist-Nazi plot:

‘’The Zionist movement led a broad campaign of incitement against the Jews living under Nazi rule to arouse the government's hatred of them, to fuel vengeance against them and to expand the mass extermination.’’

Abbas replied some 10 years later that he had written the book when the Palestinians were at war with Israel, adding that "today I would not have made such remarks.''
You brought up the fact that Abbas met the President and Taoiseach as some sort of device to mitigate the disgusting pro Nazi, Breen. It is spurious nonsense.
OK. Abbas didn't write "The Other Side: The Secret Relationship Between Nazism and Zionism", and I made the whole thing up. Alternatively Abbas did write it, but if Breen is disgusting for being Pro-Nazi, what does that say about people like Higgins?
 
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