Our West Brit President Declines To Attend The Soloheadbeg Commeration.


the secretary

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You lost me at west brit....
 

Disillusioned democrat

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Michael D has clearly been one of our best Presidents ! A lot of angry people on this tread talking through their HXLES !!
Sadly that's more of a reflection on the other presidents we've had than any particular praise for Michael D Higgins...his faux socialism is part of the cancer that's eating into the heart and soul of the country...when we hold his mediocrity up as a high standard of "public service" then it doesn't take a genius to figure out why this country is so dysfunctional.

Michael D values travelers over tax payers....go figure.
 

ymmek

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Sadly that's more of a reflection on the other presidents we've had than any particular praise for Michael D Higgins...his faux socialism is part of the cancer that's eating into the heart and soul of the country...when we hold his mediocrity up as a high standard of "public service" then it doesn't take a genius to figure out why this country is so dysfunctional.

Michael D values travelers over tax payers....go figure.
It makes me feel good that you feel this country is dysfunctional,i shudder to think what it would be like if you were happy with it.
 

making waves

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I think your attempt to dismiss O’Connell as some sort of castle Catholic is very unfair.

As a young man O’Connell was a member of the militia but he was also, it seems, a United Irishman.

In 1844 in conversation at Derrynane with Young Irelanders John O’Hagan and John Pigot, O’Connnell said that he “was a yeoman in ‘98 but never the less a United Irishman”.

In the early 1840s he said to O’Neill Daunt “I was myself a United Irishman” and that he “would have in all probability been hanged. I learnt much by being a looker on about that time....my friend Richard Newton Bennett was an adjunct to the Directory of the United Irishmen”.

In April 1831 he told the poet Thomas Moore in conversation about Lord Edward Fitzgerald and the events of 1798 that “a colonel of artillery sold us 800 muskets from ordinance at a guinea a piece”.


Supplementing O’Connells own words we have evidence from other sources that corroborate his involvement. Barrister Richard Hobart gave an account of having met “a Mr O’Connell or Connell” at a neighbours house Mr Richard Newton Bennett(O’Connell’sClose friend of that time as mentioned by himself above)....

...A member of the Lawyer’s Artillery(O’Connell’s unit)arrived and got them to join in the funeral of an unnamed United Irishman. On their way Hobart overheard Bennett propose to O’Connell “that they should deliver up” to the United Irishmen the canon of the Lawyers Corps.

Another source of the same event came from an attorney Mr J.B Palmer who at dinner at a house in Charlemont Street on the 30th April 1797 overheard a conversation between Mr O’Connell and others of the Lawyer’s Artillery in which it was proposed and agreed to take out the guns and leave them for the rebels.

In later years he condemned the United Irishmen and also Robert Emmett but that may have been said for a British audience at least in part to assuage concerns about catholic loyalty.

However, the choice of the Hill of Tara and Clontarf as venues for the Monster Meetings marked clearly his national aspirations for those that understood the meaning of those places.

Ref Historical Revision: Was O'Connell a United Irishman?

C. J. Woods
Irish Historical Studies
Vol. 35, No. 138 (Nov., 2006), pp. 173-183
O'Connell was a scumbag landlord who sold the voting rights of tenant farmers to get parliamentary entitlement for Catholic landlords. He was up to his eyeballs in nepotism and corruption. Furthermore - he viciously opposed any movement that he couldn't control, in particular he was a virulent opponent of trade unions.
 

raetsel

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OK. Abbas didn't write "The Other Side: The Secret Relationship Between Nazism and Zionism", and I made the whole thing up. Alternatively Abbas did write it, but if Breen is disgusting for being Pro-Nazi, what does that say about people like Higgins?
Is Higgins an admirer of the Nazis?

No?

Didn't think so.
 

bang bang

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We had Canadians with us over xmas and they couldn't get over Higgins. They thought he was like something out of a fantasy novel with the elf like features and massive pot belly.

People are laughing at this old yoke.:mad2::mad2:

He does not give off a good image abroad. We're a young vibrant confident nation.
He should have retired, it's a phucking joke and the PC brigade on here can say what they like MDH is simply too old.
 

raetsel

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Castro and other Leftist dictators would be more his style.
Castro had his faults but compared to the man he overthrew, the right wing dictator, Batista, (more your type I'd imagine), he was a saint.

Cubas Health Care System: a Model for the World | HuffPost

The Cuban health system is recognized worldwide for its excellence and its efficiency. Despite extremely limited resources and the dramatic impact caused by the economic sanctions imposed by the United States for more than half a century, Cuba has managed to guarantee access to care for all segments of the population and obtain results similar to those of the most developed nations.

During her recent visit to Havana in July of 2014, Margaret Chan, Director-General of the World Health Organization (WHO), impressed by the country’s achievements in this field, praised the Cuban health care system: “Cuba is the only country that has a health care system closely linked to research and development. This is the way to go, because human health can only improve through innovation,” She also praised “the efforts of the country’s leadership for having made health an essential pillar of development” [1].


15 Facts on Cuba and its Education System | ACEI-Global

3. According to a 2014 report by The World Bank, Cuba has the best education system in Latin American and the Caribbean and the only country on the continent to have a high-level teaching faculty. The World Bank Report also praises Cuba for its success in the fields of education and health, with social services that exceeds those of most developing countries and, in certain sectors, are comparable to those of the developed nations.
Life Expectancy in Cuba

According to the latest WHO data published in 2018 life expectancy in Cuba is: Male 76.8, female 81.3 and total life expectancy is 79.0 which gives Cuba a World Life Expectancy ranking of 33.
 

Antóin Mac Comháin

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Where do I even begin with this? For a start it is not all that clear what Abbas's actual views are but I wouldn't place too much reliance on something published in an American Jewish magazine without knowing a lot more about the integrity of their editorial slant and of the author, particularly as the NYT seems to be portraying him rather differently.

However it is clear that it is common cause that he isn't actually a holocaust denier.
The history of the Gypsies, the Jews and the Holocaust are inseparable.

''The Zionists, the work asserts, were the Third Reich’s “basic partner in crime.” - Abbas

In the doctoral thesis, Abbas describes the number of Jews murdered in the Nazi Holocaust as agreed upon by mainstream historians, six millions, as "fantastic lie". In the book, he wrote:

‘’It seems that the interest of the Zionist movement, however, is to inflate this figure of Holocaust deaths so that their gains will be greater. This led them to emphasize this figure , (six million), in order to gain the solidarity of international public opinion with Zionism. Many scholars have debated the figure of six million and reached stunning conclusions — fixing the number of Jewish victims at only a few hundred thousand.’’

Abbas also wrote:

‘’Following the war, word was spread that six million Jews were amongst the victims and that a war of extermination was aimed primarily at the Jews. The truth is that no one can either confirm or deny this figure. In other words, it is possible that the number of Jewish victims reached six million, but at the same time it is possible that the figure is much smaller, below one million.’’

Abbas quotes historian Raul Hilberg to support his allegations that fewer than one million Jews were killed. However, Rafael Medoff of the David S. Wyman Institute for Holocaust Studies denied the assertion that "The historian and author, Raoul Hilberg, thinks that the figure does not exceed 890,000", and said this is "utterly false". He wrote that "Professor Hilberg, a distinguished historian and author of the classic study The Destruction of the European Jews, has never said or written any such thing."

Abbas also raised doubts regarding the existence of the gas chambers, quoting Robert Faurisson, on the nonexistence of gas chambers.

Additionally, he stated that the much smaller number of Jews which he reportedly admitted that the Germans did massacre, were actually the victims of a Zionist-Nazi plot:

‘’The Zionist movement led a broad campaign of incitement against the Jews living under Nazi rule to arouse the government's hatred of them, to fuel vengeance against them and to expand the mass extermination.’’

Abbas replied some 10 years later that he had written the book when the Palestinians were at war with Israel, adding that "today I would not have made such remarks.''
I think you've summed that up pretty accurately, but it is no excuse.

Even if you give him the benefit of the doubt for that up to 1939 (when it was well known around the world that the Nazis were engaged in a campaign of brutal repression of Jews etc.), he remained a Nazi sympathiser after the war, when the scale of the holocaust was public knowledge, and that is inexcusable on any level. How could anyone remain sympathetic to a regime that systematically engaged in genocide, and on such a grand scale? How could anyone be so cruel, heartless and disregarding as to remain an admirer of people who murdered countless innocent women & children? Yet Breen did. The man was irredeemable, and you'd have to be a nutter not to feel disgust at his attitudes. It points to the suggestion that he was very likely a psychopath, as of course do his actions during the War of Independence itself.

Unlike many other War of Independence leaders, who were essentially decent men motivated by a desire to change things for the better, Breen's primary motivation seems to have been blind hatred of the British. The argument that "he was a bastard but he was our bastard" seems to be the only argument here.
Is Higgins an admirer of the Nazis?

No?

Didn't think so.
I don’t know. He’s an admirer of Castro and Abbas. Is Abbas a Holocaust denier?

Abbas didn't write "The Other Side: The Secret Relationship Between Nazism and Zionism" no?
 

Antóin Mac Comháin

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[video=youtube_share;znrDWkDhYXM]https://youtu.be/znrDWkDhYXM[/video]

''We were slaves. Serf-minded. Collins came along and lifted us out of that.'' - Óglach Dan Breen, 3rd Tipperary Brigade, IRA

Diaspora Na Gael - The Exodus of the Gael

Cha b'e 'n clò ciar nach b' fhiach 'f hùcadh, mar a míníonn an seanfhocail mar gheall ar Gníomh Parlaiminte 1746 san Alban.

Ciallaíonn an focail 'Diaspora' cine airithe a bheith scaipthe ar fud an domhain. Focail Greigise is ea e a husaideadh le scaipeadh na nGiúdach a mhíníu nuair a dibríodh as a dtír féin iad in aimsir na Romans. Chuaigh siad ar an gcéad dul síos go dtí na tíortha ar an Meanmhair, deisceart na hEorpa ach go hairaithe. Ansin chuaigh siad o thuaidh th'eis dóibh gearleannúint is díbirt a fhuallaingt i dtíortha fe leith. Churaidh as a dtir féin iad de bharr cogaíocht le na gcomharsana. Tá a lan i gcoíteann idir na nGaeil is na nGiúdach, agus caitheadh amach as a dtír féin an bheirt acu de dheasca an impiriúlachas, is tá na nGaeil is na nGiúdach scaipthe anois ar fud an domhan mhóir.
Translation:

“It’s not the home-spun clothe which is the problem, as the old proverb says about the Act of ’46 in Scotland.

“The word ‘Diaspora’ means a group of people who are scattered across the globe. It’s a Greek word used to explain the scattering of the Jews across the globe when they were cast out of the homelands by the Romans. In the beginning they mostly traveled to the South of Europe. They were expelled due to conflict with their neighbours. The Jews have a lot in common with the Gaels, as both of them have been expelled from their homelands because of Imperialism.’’


Diaspora Na Gael - The Exodus of the Gael

What is perhaps less well known than other aspects of Irish and Scottish history, are the large numbers of our people that were rounded up and transported to the colonies to be sold into slavery.

Political prisoners were routinely sold into slavery, and The Act of Proscription (1746), which was passed after the Battle of Culloden stated that anyone wearing tartan or Highland dress was subject to transportation. Conditions on the ships were appalling, and many would not survive the long, grueling sea crossing and the cruel treatment meted out.

As early as the 1600’s, ships from Leith and Port Glasgow in Scotland sailed off to the colonies laden with Gaelic people that had been rounded up to be sold at the block, sometimes to line the pockets of their compatriots. The numbers taken as slaves must have been huge, as according to the Calendar of State Papers, Colonial Series, America and West Indies of 1701, we read that there was an estimated 25,000 slaves in Barbados alone, of whom 21,700 were believed to be white. The fair-skinned slaves in this area were known as Redlegs or Redshanks by the locals, because of their sunburned flesh. It was upon the sweat and tears of these unfortunate people that the British economy was driven forward and thrived.

Descendants of the Gaels forced into slavery are now beginning to realize that it a part of our history that has been quietly swept under the carpet, and are understandably feeling very angry. Pressure groups are looking for an official apology, and there is even a Scottish Slave Facebook page that is an “open group to all who believe they are descendants of the Scottish slaves, and all who support the recognition that this happened and demand an apology from the government”.

A brief history of the origins and social history of the Jewish community in Ireland:


Portobello - Little Jerusalem

The area was also known as Little Jerusalem because in the first half of the Twentieth century it was at the heart of the Jewish community in Dublin. The first Jews fleeing conditions in Lithuania (then part of the Russian Empire) arrived in the early 1870s and eventually settled off Lower Clanbrassil Street. http://www.politics.ie/forum/history/218159-irish-jews-revolutionary-period-9.html

Dublin Tenement Life: An Oral History of the Dublin Slums - https://www.amazon.com/Dublin-Tenement-Life-Oral-History/dp/0717140741

Little Jerusalem where most of the Lithuanian Jews settled is between the canal and the Liffey on the south side. Mushatts chemist was in the heart of the Liberties.

History of Mushatts

The American Indians used to call them Medicine Men and in the annals of medieval Dublin, Ireland, they might have been known as Witches or Alchemists. But with the progression of science, names like Apothecary and Pharmacist came into use. But whatever we call the science, the Mushatt family became an institution in the Liberties area in Dublin for over forty years. With their mixtures and preparations, they seemed to cure all the ills of the poor and working classes of the city – they sometimes found their way to the better off and, because the rich had a choice, their beliefs were often stronger than the actual medicine they were taking.

It was 1886 when Harry’s father, a credit draper, came to Ireland from a small town in Lithuania. He settled in Dublin where he married and had a family of five children. They were part of a community that had started to come to Dublin from Eastern Europe around 1834 to 1880.

Most of their customers were from the tenements in Dublin, particularly those in the Liberties. The people of the tenements, who lived in abject poverty, went to the Mushatt brothers because they really couldn’t afford a doctor. Because they made up their own medicines, they became known as the ‘fellas with the cures’. They made up to 44 different preparations, each written in a large book which they kept in the back of the shop under lock and key. The shop was never empty, serving up to 300 on a Saturday. The interesting thing was that most of their customers were women but, then again, women did most of the shopping for their men-folk in those days.

Harry Mushatt tells what it was like then: "we made our own medicines in the shop. My brother and I made up forty-four different preparations, from skin ointments, psoriasis ointments, foot pastes, stomach bottles, skin creames, tablets for kidneys, headaches, neuralgia…. all different things. Oh, there was a bond of trust and they'd come into the shop and it would be packed out. Tenement people, if one wasn't feeling well or met with an accident, Go to Mushatt's!, they'd say. They came from all over Dublin"

The history of the Jews in Ireland and especially Dublin would be incomplete without mentioning Mushatt's. I'm not saying every single Jew had the same experience as the Mushatt's, but that's the area where most of them are believed to have settled.. There was a synagogue nearby on St Kevins Parade.

A brief history of the Irish Jewish community during the Revolutionary period (1916-23):


Michael Noyk, 1884–1966, was born in the Lithuanian town of Telšiai and moved to Dublin with his parents at the age of one. An Irish Republican activist and lawyer, he most famously defended republican prisoners during the War of Independence and afterwards. In the 1917 Clare East by-election he was a prominent worker for Eamon de Valera and in the 1918 general election was election agent for Countess Markievicz and Seán T. O’Kelly. He was later involved in renting houses and offices for all the ministries established under the first Dáil. During the War of Independence he regularly met Michael Collins in Devlin’s pub on Parnell Square and helped to run the republican courts.

While Arthur Griffith’s early anti-Semitic comments (c.1904) are frequently recalled, it should be noted that he was an extremely close friend of Noyk’s from 1910 onwards and he remained Griffith’s solicitor until his death in 1922.'' - https://comeheretome.com/2013/11/07/jewish-community-during-the-revolutionary-period-1916-23/

Ellen Odette Cuffe, Countess of Desart (née Bischoffsheim; 1 September 1857 – 29 June 1933) was a London-born Jewish woman who was best known as an Irish politician, company director, Gaelicist (President of the Gaelic League for a time) and philanthropist in Ireland. She has been called '"the most important Jewish woman in Irish history".

She was interested in the Gaelic revival of the time and became a member of the Gaelic League and was elected its president, succeeding her brother-in-law, Captain Otway Cuffe, who was mayor of Kilkenny.

She was appointed to the Irish Free State Seanad Éireann as an independent member in December 1922 by the President of the Executive Council. She was one of four women elected or appointed to the first Seanad in 1922. She was the first Jew to serve as a Senator in Ireland. She was appointed for 12 years in 1922 and served until her death in 1933. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellen_Cuffe,_Countess_of_Desart

“Zionist leaders paid homage to the Irish, too. For example, while fighting the British in Palestine, Yitzhak Shamir, adopted the code-name Michael, in tribute to the Irish guerrilla leader Michael Collins. ''It was to the heroes of the Irish revolution that I paid tribute to years after, by choosing 'Michael' as my underground alias. - Colors of Zion - https://books.google.ie/books?id=LIoQ91NAQZgC&pg=PA101&lpg=PA101&dq=james+connolly+zionism&source=bl&ots=nFByUvbLps&sig=qc-RKcDK9qiJjt7zDRYbf8Pz-EE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiM2fmovrLbAhUNY1AKHeXvAUgQ6AEIejAO

Westland Row - Throughout my whole life in Ireland, I never experienced any antisemitism there.' - Jewish Ireland in the Age of Joyce: A Socioeconomic History - https://books.google.ie/books?id=HpzmW5QuDEgC&pg=PA196&lpg=PA196&dq=mushatts+oral+history+of+dublin+tenement+life&source=bl&ots=BCrJ5wftdw&sig=mbYamc1VuDM3fuNQzYaxxNOEFw4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi4yeTcwLLbAhVNIlAKHbjcBsgQ6AEIZzAP
 

Antóin Mac Comháin

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I don't know why Irish people have a problem with the Germans but not the English - or with Fianna Fail but not Fine Gael.

Fine Gael were set up as a Fascist political Party in 1933. Its first Führer was Eoin O'Duffy - a rabid Fascist and Nazi.

Fine Gael members and men who were Free State army members fought side by side with the Nazis during the Spanish Civil War.


Today’s fashionable loathing of Zionists is far from progressive

Critics of Israel often argue that one can be an anti-Zionist without being an anti-Semite. They’re right. Criticising an ideology is not the same thing as expressing hatred towards a group of people.

Moreover, the demand by radical anti-Zionists that Western governments should tackle the crimes of Zionism hands European leaders a stunning opportunity: posturing against the evils of Zionism allows the cynical rulers of Europe to whitewash their own colonialist and racist pasts and to present themselves as elevated and cosmopolitan, the guardians of international morality.
- The truth about Zionism | The Jewish Question | spiked
[MENTION=677]Aodhan[/MENTION]ORiordain - 1 Dec 2018 Part of a non-violent struggle.
Unlike the IRA who once bombed a bus of schoolgirls that included @DUPleader Arlene Foster.
Non-violence leads to understanding, empathy & healing.
Violence leads to entrenchment and bitterness.
You reap what you sow. Mary Lou McDonald
“I woke this morning to the news that, for the past 30 years, the Irish Government were in possession of a letter from the UVF admitting that they were given the bomb by the British, that murdered the Miami Showband and left me dying in a blood-soaked field. The letter says that MI5 also supplied the UVF with detonators ‘which they had set to explode prematurely’, as happened during the attack on the Miami Showband near Banbridge in 1975.” - Stephen Travers, Survivor of the Miami Showband Massacre, December 29th, 2017

On the 11th of September, 1975, the British Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, Merlyn Rees, Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, held a meeting with Margaret Thatcher, leader of the Conservative Party, to brief her about a number of matters including Northern Ireland. Confidential Cabinet minutes from the meeting were subsequently published by the Belfast based Newspaper, the Irish News, on the 3rd of May, 2006, the Irish News, which revealed that the British Government was aware of collusion between the British Security Forces and the Loyaist Death Squads.
Do you not think that the type of revisionism Higgins fellow Labourite O’Riordain is engaging in is a bit of an insult to the people at the receiving end of the State sponsored violence that was dished out by the *non-violent* Ulster Resistance? The point being that one of the *non-violent DUP* members gave the funeral oration at the graveside of the *non-violent British soldiers* who had dual membership of the Loyalist Death Squads being discussed by Thatcher, Wilson and Rees who accidentally blew themselves and the Miami Showband to kingdom come, which was 1 of approximately 100 such attacks they carried out.
If it was inexcusable for someone like Breen to hold those views, and he lacked the formal education that Higgns and Coveney have, how irredeemable and morally bankrupt does that make the Irish Labour Party and Fine Gael?
You brought up the fact that Abbas met the President and Taoiseach as some sort of device to mitigate the disgusting pro Nazi, Breen. It is spurious nonsense.
Wrong. I’m challenging the blatant falsification of history. Fine Gael history with the Blueshirts has been well documented, and they were in power with the Labour Party in the 1970s, when the events described above took place. Trying to recast the Glenane Gang as Civil Rights activists is a new low from O’Riordan.

First of all, there was only ever one incidence of violence carried out against Jews in Ireland, which resulted in someone losing their life, and that killing was carried out by none other than two inebriated former members of Collins Squad, you know, the true Blue Dublin Guards of Beggars Bush, from the Ernst Blythe wing of Sinn Féin, when the Civil War was over if you don’t mind. Gosh! They were dreadful krayturs altogether, so they were. The character of Seán Russell was vindicated at the Nuremberg Trials by the head of the English Secret Intelligence Services, and the head of the German Secret Intelligence Services, whose evidence was the primary source of material which led directly to the execution of dozens of Nazi leaders, when both of them testified to the fact that Russell was an Irish Republican, and not a Nazi sympathizer. 10 people died during the 3-year long England Campaign between 1939-1942, following the declaration-of-war against Britain in December 1938 by ‘the legitimate government of the 1916 Rising, the 1918 General Election and the Second Dáil Éireann.’ At one stage there was only half a dozen people involved in the campaign. That’s the truth of the matter, and Tom Barry was one of them. Barry resigned from the Army Council of the IRA in 1937 and supported the defence efforts of the Irish Army during WW-II, and so did the future leader and Chief-Of-Staff of the IRA. Ó Cadhain also resigned from the Army Council, but the State still interned him after he gave the graveside oration at Tony D’Arcys funeral, following his death on Hunger Strike. Saor Uladh Volunteer, Óglach Connie Green, who was killed in 1955 during an attack on an RUC Barracks fought the Nazi’s in Italy.
 

Nebuchadnezzar

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Wrong. I’m challenging the blatant falsification of history. Fine Gael history with the Blueshirts has been well documented, and they were in power with the Labour Party in the 1970s, when the events described above took place. Trying to recast the Glenane Gang as Civil Rights activists is a new low from O’Riordan.

First of all, there was only ever one incidence of violence carried out against Jews in Ireland, which resulted in someone losing their life, and that killing was carried out by none other than two inebriated former members of Collins Squad, you know, the true Blue Dublin Guards of Beggars Bush, from the Ernst Blythe wing of Sinn Féin, when the Civil War was over if you don’t mind. Gosh! They were dreadful krayturs altogether, so they were. The character of Seán Russell was vindicated at the Nuremberg Trials by the head of the English Secret Intelligence Services, and the head of the German Secret Intelligence Services, whose evidence was the primary source of material which led directly to the execution of dozens of Nazi leaders, when both of them testified to the fact that Russell was an Irish Republican, and not a Nazi sympathizer. 10 people died during the 3-year long England Campaign between 1939-1942, following the declaration-of-war against Britain in December 1938 by ‘the legitimate government of the 1916 Rising, the 1918 General Election and the Second Dáil Éireann.’ At one stage there was only half a dozen people involved in the campaign. That’s the truth of the matter, and Tom Barry was one of them. Barry resigned from the Army Council of the IRA in 1937 and supported the defence efforts of the Irish Army during WW-II, and so did the future leader and Chief-Of-Staff of the IRA. Ó Cadhain also resigned from the Army Council, but the State still interned him after he gave the graveside oration at Tony D’Arcys funeral, following his death on Hunger Strike. Saor Uladh Volunteer, Óglach Connie Green, who was killed in 1955 during an attack on an RUC Barracks fought the Nazi’s in Italy.
Seán Russell believed that a Nazi victory would bring about a United Ireland. Anyone who thinks that a Nazi victory was price worth paying is a deluded fool. Seán Russell was a Nazi collaborator. Breen was a Nazi sympathiser.
 

Antóin Mac Comháin

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Seán Russell believed that a Nazi victory would bring about a United Ireland. Anyone who thinks that a Nazi victory was price worth paying is a deluded fool. Seán Russell was a Nazi collaborator. Breen was a Nazi sympathiser.
Seamus O'Donovan put the S-Plan together, and not Seán Russell, so I'm not quite sure what motivated the latter, or what his strategic objectives were. I'm inclined to believe that a slogan was elevated to a point of principle, but their initial intentions weren't to hurt anybody, and the fact that half of the casualties happened on the same day, due to a saboteur panicking, suggests that with a bit of luck on their side that would have been the case, and the affair would have become a footnote in an obscure Republican publication in the back-end of nowhere. The head of both the English and German Intelligence Services during the war dismissed the view that Russell was a German sympathizer and a collaborator. Their evidence was good enough to convict the Nazi leadership, so it has to be considered when weighing up Russell's credentials as a Nazi collaborator, and I think Breen lacked the formal education and intelligence to make a valid assessment of the Germans. I suspect a lot of the My Struggle For Irish Freedom books were penned by ghost writers, and a large proportion, 70% by some estimations, of the TD's from that period left school when they were 12. One tale has the Breen's with pigs in the bedroom, and the other has a house full of books. I find it hard to believe that Breen was a book-worm. He probably had a house full of books, but that doesn't mean he read any of them. It's stating the obvious to say a Nazi victory wouldn't have been worth it, and I think the fact that Vinny Byrne, Pro-Treaty, Tom Barry, Anti-Treaty, and Seán Cronin, the 1950's IRA leader, all ended up in the 26th Battalion of the Irish Army during that period, suggests that most thinking Republicans understood that.
 

raetsel

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I don’t know. He’s an admirer of Castro and Abbas. Is Abbas a Holocaust denier?
You have just pulled that out of your arse. Please provide evidence that President Higgins is an admirer, or wind your neck back in.

Abbas is clearly not a Holocaust denier.
 

RasherHash

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Seán Russell believed that a Nazi victory would bring about a United Ireland. Anyone who thinks that a Nazi victory was price worth paying is a deluded fool. Seán Russell was a Nazi collaborator. Breen was a Nazi sympathiser.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend (or at least my supplier with arms and cash), the IRA served neither King nor Kaiser in both imperialist wars.

Breen would have been the first to face the Nazis if they invaded Ireland.
 

Nebuchadnezzar

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Seamus O'Donovan put the S-Plan together, and not Seán Russell, so I'm not quite sure what motivated the latter, or what his strategic objectives were. I'm inclined to believe that a slogan was elevated to a point of principle, but their initial intentions weren't to hurt anybody, and the fact that half of the casualties happened on the same day, due to a saboteur panicking, suggests that with a bit of luck on their side that would have been the case, and the affair would have become a footnote in an obscure Republican publication in the back-end of nowhere. The head of both the English and German Intelligence Services during the war dismissed the view that Russell was a German sympathizer and a collaborator. Their evidence was good enough to convict the Nazi leadership, so it has to be considered when weighing up Russell's credentials as a Nazi collaborator, and I think Breen lacked the formal education and intelligence to make a valid assessment of the Germans. I suspect a lot of the My Struggle For Irish Freedom books were penned by ghost writers, and a large proportion, 70% by some estimations, of the TD's from that period left school when they were 12. One tale has the Breen's with pigs in the bedroom, and the other has a house full of books. I find it hard to believe that Breen was a book-worm. He probably had a house full of books, but that doesn't mean he read any of them. It's stating the obvious to say a Nazi victory wouldn't have been worth it, and I think the fact that Vinny Byrne, Pro-Treaty, Tom Barry, Anti-Treaty, and Seán Cronin, the 1950's IRA leader, all ended up in the 26th Battalion of the Irish Army during that period, suggests that most thinking Republicans understood that.
Russell spent three months training with German the special operations unit, the Brandenburg Regiment, during 1940. During that time Stephen Hayes’ IRA Plan Kathleen invasion plan arrived in Berlin....a plan that invisaged IRA units directly supporting a german invasion of Northern Ireland.....with German troops landing in Derry with a simultaneous cross border attack from Leitrim by the IRA. A hairbrained scheme. On August 1940, just prior to his submarine voyage to Ireland, Russell had a meeting with head of German Intelligence Admiral Canaris and with von Ribbentrop. Russell was very much part of the IRA’s policy of cooperation with Nazi germany.
 

Nebuchadnezzar

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The enemy of my enemy is my friend (or at least my supplier with arms and cash), the IRA served neither King nor Kaiser in both imperialist wars.

Breen would have been the first to face the Nazis if they invaded Ireland.
Speech by Seán Russell in October 1939....

“England's difficulty - Ireland's opportunity" has ever been the watchword of the Gael.. Now is the time for Irishmen to take up arms and strike a blow for the Ulster people.
The IRA’s Plan Kathleen would have turned Ireland into a WW2 battle zone with the IRA on the side of the Germans fighting against the British. I’m pretty sure Breen would have been on the wrong side.
 

Nebuchadnezzar

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