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Outing of Gay Politicians


livingstone

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Gay Tory 'outing threat' exposes split over same-sex marriage | News | The Week UK

OK, so you’re thinking ‘not another gay thread’ and ‘couldn’t this go with another thread’. I’m posting a new thread because (a) I think this is a distinct issue and (b) the thread on gay marriage in the UK seems to be claiming the last page of the thread can’t be displayed and instead the most recent page I can open seems to be page 46.

A number of outlets have suggestions about secretly gay MPs planning to vote against gay marriage tomorrow, and threats by some Tories to out those who do. What are people’s thoughts on outing of secretly gay politicians.

My normal instinct is that someone’s political life is separate from their private life, and whether they are gay or not has little to do with the merits of the debate at hand. But is a degree of hypocrisy relevant in judging political representatives actions? This really was more of an issue back in the 70s and 80s when Peter Tatchell had a deliberate policy of outing gay MPs who votes against gay rights (section 28 was a particular case). Tatchell himself was the victim of massive homophobia when he ran in a by-election against the current Deputy Leader of the Lib Dems, Simon Hughes in 1983. Ironically, Hughes was (much) later found to be less than consistent in his attitude to homosexuality when outed when running for the leadership of the Lib Dems. So if a politician is being hypocritical in their actions, or in this example if their opposition to gay marriage is grounded in some moral objection to gay relationships, or lauding of the heterosexual marital ideal, does that hypocrisy need to be ‘outed’.

I’m genuinely not sure on this – I think my attitude is that if an MP is secretly gay, that’s one thing and they shouldn’t be outed, but if they are pontificating about the sanctity of straight marriage as the ultimate ideal while having a wife at home and a rent boy on the side, then that’s a level of hypocrisy that, I believe, should be exposed.
 


commonman

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You were doing well until rent a boy came along, are you saying that all gays have rent boys.
 

livingstone

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You were doing well until rent a boy came along, are you saying that all gays have rent boys.
No, I'm saying that when rish, married, closeted gay men are outed, it's often because they've been using the services of a rent boy. I very clearly didn't claim it to be always the case by using it in a hypothetical sense.
 
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I too didn't like the "rent boy" reference, because many married gay men find solace and an outlet with partners who are discreet

Getting past that, yes, it's nasty that their peers would use their sexuality to confound all democratic principles in a way which can only be described by one word: "Blackmail".

It's disgusting.
 

blokesbloke

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I don't think gay MPs are obliged to support gay marriage just because they're gay, so I would not support outing them.

They are only hypocrites in my view if they availed themselves of gay marriage in another country, eg. Netherlands or Canada, but then voted against introducing it in the UK.

Besides, they might have other reasons. For example the gay marriage bill will specifically make it illegal for the Church of England to conduct a gay marriage even if it wanted to.

They could be voting against the bill because it actually enshrines this inequality into law.
 

eoghanacht

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Disgusting is the word.

But then we are talking about Politicians
 

commonman

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No, I'm saying that when rish, married, closeted gay men are outed, it's often because they've been using the services of a rent boy. I very clearly didn't claim it to be always the case by using it in a hypothetical sense.
Maybe you should remove that part.
 

Ryan Tubbs

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Mixed views on this. No one should be outed for opposing the gay marriage. Being a closet case and opposing gay marriage are two perfectly compatible views.

Pontificating about the evils of homosexuality, while being a closet case ...... well now that would be another story.

The reality however is that the "gay lobby" tend to be a very nasty, vicious, "you're either 100% with us or 100% against us" type of crowd. Same as the feminazis. So, these MPs had better watch out.
 

Clanrickard

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Maybe you should remove that part.
Why should he? It is a well known phrase and applicable in many cases of bi people who want to give their life a veneer of normality.
 

Warrior of Destiny

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Sooner or later the Conservatives will have to acknowledge that in order to preserve the family unit they so cherish and their political survival, they will have to include same sex couples in that too.
 

blokesbloke

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Sooner or later the Conservatives will have to acknowledge that in order to preserve the family unit they so cherish and their political survival, they will have to include same sex couples in that too.
To be fair it's the Conservatives who are introducing the bill in the first place, along with the Lib Dems.
 

Dame_Enda

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As a gay person who normally frowns on this sort of thing, I make an exception here. Hypocrisy deserves to be exposed.
 

johnfás

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As a gay person who normally frowns on this sort of thing, I make an exception here. Hypocrisy deserves to be exposed.
How is it necessarily hypocritical? Surely it's possible to be gay and also anti gay marriage. It's equally possible to be straight and pro gay marriage. Some people disagree with the concept of state legislation for marriage altogether. All these things are possible and not hypocritical.
 

Warrior of Destiny

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To be fair it's the Conservatives who are introducing the bill in the first place, along with the Lib Dems.
I know, but I feel that doesn't make my point any less valid. The Conservative MPs must have some idea that opinion and demographics are shifting against them in England and their policies while still applicable need a Ptolemization as Zizek would put it, a change within the already existing framework of Conservative Policy
 

Dame_Enda

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How is it necessarily hypocritical? Surely it's possible to be gay and also anti gay marriage. It's equally possible to be straight and pro gay marriage. Some people disagree with the concept of state legislation for marriage altogether. All these things are possible and not hypocritical.
True but gay marriage is increasingly seen as part and parcel of the equality modern liberal societies sre supposed to represent.
 

livingstone

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The question of hypocrisy is where I am conflicted. I don't think it's hypocritical to be gay and anti-gay marriage. I think it's illogical and self-defeating, but I have no problem with the consistency of that position.

So if someone is single and outwardly straight but secretly gay, I have little problem with that. But if someone opposes gay marriage by extolling the virtues of the straight relationship, while cheating on their wife with a man, that enters more hypocritical territory for me.
 

johnfás

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True but gay marriage is increasingly seen as part and parcel of the equality modern liberal societies sre supposed to represent.
Perhaps, but it has nothing to do with hypocrisy. You might call such a person illiberal, anti-equality or something but its not hypocrisy.
 

Truth.ie

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David Starkey (gay and atheist) was very articulate on this issue when talking on Question Time..
He's against gay marriage also, so people should leave misconceptions that it's only blue rinsed, Mail-reading Tories opposing this.
Here' a link to the article with built in link to the Question Time debate.
‘Gay and atheist’ David Starkey is defending Christian conscience more clearly than our bishops | CatholicHerald.co.uk
Personally, I think it's inevitable it's going to happen.
Once these issues begin rolling, it only has one inevitable outcome.
I'm pretty conservative and slow to change, and I'm torn on the issue.
I don't think religious groups should be persecuted for their beliefs.
I think things are moving a bit too fast for it's own good.
I also think outing people against their will is downright wrong.
 

Hooch

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David Starkey (gay and atheist) was very articulate on this issue when talking on Question Time..
He's against gay marriage also, so people should leave misconceptions that it's only blue rinsed, Mail-reading Tories opposing this.
Here' a link to the article with built in link to the Question Time debate.
‘Gay and atheist’ David Starkey is defending Christian conscience more clearly than our bishops | CatholicHerald.co.uk
Personally, I think it's inevitable it's going to happen.
Once these issues begin rolling, it only has one inevitable outcome.
I'm pretty conservative and slow to change, and I'm torn on the issue.
I don't think religious groups should be persecuted for their beliefs.
I think things are moving a bit too fast for it's own good.
I also think outing people against their will is downright wrong.
David Starkey is a blue rinsed Mail-reading Tory.
 

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