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Outrage as older civil servants deny young generation prop tax relief on stamp duty


Big Brother

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Feb 2, 2011
Messages
2,732
Ireland the Old Sow eats her Farrow: Thornhill Report

Government advised not to exempt those who paid hefty stamp duty - News, The Budget - Independent.ie

Yes I know Gerhard has started a thread on the substantive issue of the property tax.

This thread is different and concerns the transparency of the Thornhilll report and the fact that it was not published for discussion before the budget.

I first got suspicious of "independent reports" back in October 2007 when one such recommended a 17% pay hike for then Taoiseach Bertie Ahern.

At least that one was published before any action was taken.

The failure of the report to rectify the injustice of stamp duty - which was only ever intended to apply to really expensive houses at the top of the range (but thresholds were let stay static to bring in more and more of us into the net until the vast majority paid it) - and the fact that many are still repaying the loans we took out for it is frankly nauseating.

So is the fact that those who drafted it - mostly civil servants - are beneficiaries of the Croke Park agreement which has also been rubber stamped by the inside left establishment that now runs Ireland in its own interests.

These older civil servants probably never paid stamp duty or paid it when it was a relatively small burden. And their houses are unlikely to be negative equity. Their huge pensions (133k for retiring head of gov't department like Don Thornhill) are being protected and to pay for it new taxes are brought in.

Neither anyone from the real private sector and the new generation of young families were represented on the report: Only public sector Croke Park beneficiaries.

That is the issue this thread wishes to debate. For substantive discussion of the property tax itself, see Gerhard Dengler's thread.
 
Last edited:

diaspora-mick

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Oct 19, 2011
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4,795
"Outrage as older civil servants deny young generation prop tax relief on stamp duty"

At the risk of sounding like a smart-ass, where exactly has this "outrage" been manifesting itself (apart from in the OP) ?
 

Druidess

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Jul 22, 2011
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2,593
Another example of intra generational hoarding of wealth I'm afraid.
 

Druidess

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Jul 22, 2011
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Hmmm ... that sounds more like resignation than outrage to me ...

C'mon give me some outrage ... I want to see some outrage ....
you are correct, it is indeed resignation.

I am resigned to the fact that the standard of living available to the generation preceding me is unavailable to most of my peers (ridiculous property prices, child care, decrease in pay and conditions etc) and that is why I am one of the Irish diaspora.
 

gatsbygirl20

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Joined
Dec 1, 2008
Messages
22,790
Government advised not to exempt those who paid hefty stamp duty - News, The Budget - Independent.ie

Yes I know Gerhard has started a thread on the substantive issue of the property tax.

This thread is different and concerns the transparency of the Thornhilll report and the fact that it was not published for discussion before the budget.

I first got suspicious of "independent reports" back in October 2007 when one such recommended a 17% pay hike for then Taoiseach Bertie Ahern.

At least that one was published before any action was taken.

The failure of the report to rectify the injustice of stamp duty - which was only ever intended to apply to really expensive houses at the top of the range (but thresholds were let stay static to bring in more and more of us into the net until the vast majority paid it) - and the fact that many are still repaying the loans we took out for it is frankly nauseating.

So is the fact that those who drafted it - mostly civil servants - are beneficiaries of the Croke Park agreement which has also been rubber stamped by the inside left establishment that now runs Ireland in its own interests.

These older civil servants probably never paid stamp duty or paid it when it was a relatively small burden. And their houses are unlikely to be negative equity. Their huge pensions (133k for retiring head of gov't department like Don Thornhill) are being protected and to pay for it new taxes are brought in.

Neither anyone from the real private sector and the new generation of young families were represented on the report: Only public sector Croke Park beneficiaries.

That is the issue this thread wishes to debate. For substantive discussion of the property tax itself, see Gerhard Dengler's thread.

This would not be by any chance another anti-CPA, anti-civil service thread masquerading as something else, would it?.....

So the report was "rubber stamped by the inside left establishment"....God, there must have been a long queue for the rubber-stamping machines in that case...

And it was drafted "mostly by civil servants" who are "unlikely to be in negative equity". Bit of a wild guess there I'd say, unless you know them all and their boom-time spending habits personally.....

Maybe some of the "new generation of young families" you are weeping for are ALSO protected by the dreaded Croke Park deal, and are "beneficiaries" of it...

So no doubt you will be happy about that little nugget of good news anyway...
 

Big Brother

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Joined
Feb 2, 2011
Messages
2,732
TMaybe some of the "new generation of young families" you are weeping for are ALSO protected by the dreaded Croke Park deal, and are "beneficiaries" of it...

...

Actually they've been screwed by the older generation too.

New entrants to the PS will earn 30% less than the older generation that was partly responsible for all the policy failures.

So thanks to our system of public administration those that were at the helm when everythingn went wrong are protected while those they shafted pick up the price tab.

It's called social partnership....
 

Mr. Bumble

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Joined
Sep 7, 2010
Messages
18,254
Actually they've been screwed by the older generation too.

New entrants to the PS will earn 30% less than the older generation that was partly responsible for all the policy failures.

So thanks to our system of public administration those that were at the helm when everythingn went wrong are protected while those they shafted pick up the price tab.

It's called social partnership....

Another manufactured 'outrage'. Another bilious thread. Ho hum.
 

hammer

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Joined
Jul 6, 2009
Messages
58,514
These higher paid public servants have f***** up this country.

Absolutely clueless and were able to get Lendahand to reverse their salary cuts.
 

Big Brother

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Feb 2, 2011
Messages
2,732
Another manufactured 'outrage'. Another bilious thread. Ho hum.
Bilious?

The real bile is the bile directed at the young and the private sector by a discredited policy making elite.

You might be happy to pay more taxes to fund someone's public sector 133k a year pension.

But I assure the rest of us are tired of the constant attacks on us coming from bureaucratic policy makers in the form of taxation.

Taxation designed to protect an older generation who bouht before the boom, have their mortgages paid off and have tax funded incomes to fund whatever meagre contribution they make to addtional taxation.
 

olamp

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Joined
Mar 24, 2010
Messages
1,452
"Outrage as older civil servants deny young generation prop tax relief on stamp duty"

At the risk of sounding like a smart-ass, where exactly has this "outrage" been manifesting itself (apart from in the OP) ?
You will see when the propert tax kicks in !Many of these people are saying that they will not pay it-our politicians are a shower of weak lily livered inepts-they are being royally screwed by Europe and are just turning the other cheek .It's about time the citizens of Ireland rose up and made it clear that we can not take any more of this treatment -show some backbone and courage or we are all heading towards ruination.
 

olamp

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Joined
Mar 24, 2010
Messages
1,452
Actually they've been screwed by the older generation too.

New entrants to the PS will earn 30% less than the older generation that was partly responsible for all the policy failures.

So thanks to our system of public administration those that were at the helm when everythingn went wrong are protected while those they shafted pick up the price tab.


It's called social partnership....
It's called corruption.
 

olamp

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Joined
Mar 24, 2010
Messages
1,452
Bilious?

The real bile is the bile directed at the young and the private sector by a discredited policy making elite.

You might be happy to pay more taxes to fund someone's public sector 133k a year pension.



But I assure the rest of us are tired of the constant attacks on us coming from bureaucratic policy makers in the form of taxation.


Taxation designed to protect an older generation who bouht before the boom, have their mortgages paid off and have tax funded incomes to fund whatever meagre contribution they make to addtional taxation.
So what are we going to do about it then? Nothing will change unless we,the citizens ,make it!
 

joemac67

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Joined
Nov 20, 2012
Messages
681
Another example of intra generational hoarding of wealth I'm afraid.
Terrible , those bastar....... of old folks who spent all that money on 3000 sq ft houses they cant heat and the his and hers 4x4 they cant pay for and now they dont want to share all of the pain .
 

mary_queen_of_the_gael

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Joined
Jul 14, 2012
Messages
3,189
You will see when the propert tax kicks in !Many of these people are saying that they will not pay it-our politicians are a shower of weak lily livered inepts-they are being royally screwed by Europe and are just turning the other cheek .It's about time the citizens of Ireland rose up and made it clear that we can not take any more of this treatment -show some backbone and courage or we are all heading towards ruination.

You don't understand. All of our political leaders are bought off. We have a semi feudal system and the ordinary person has no power unless they are a drug dealer.
 

Red_93

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Joined
Mar 20, 2010
Messages
4,678
You don't understand. All of our political leaders are bought off. We have a semi feudal system and the ordinary person has no power unless they are a drug dealer.
Ah Mary, I see the wi-fi is back running at the central mental hospital. Welcome back my dear! :*
 

Socratus O' Pericles

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Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Messages
33,553
Government advised not to exempt those who paid hefty stamp duty - News, The Budget - Independent.ie

Yes I know Gerhard has started a thread on the substantive issue of the property tax.

This thread is different and concerns the transparency of the Thornhilll report and the fact that it was not published for discussion before the budget.

I first got suspicious of "independent reports" back in October 2007 when one such recommended a 17% pay hike for then Taoiseach Bertie Ahern.

At least that one was published before any action was taken.

The failure of the report to rectify the injustice of stamp duty - which was only ever intended to apply to really expensive houses at the top of the range (but thresholds were let stay static to bring in more and more of us into the net until the vast majority paid it) - and the fact that many are still repaying the loans we took out for it is frankly nauseating.

So is the fact that those who drafted it - mostly civil servants - are beneficiaries of the Croke Park agreement which has also been rubber stamped by the inside left establishment that now runs Ireland in its own interests.

These older civil servants probably never paid stamp duty or paid it when it was a relatively small burden. And their houses are unlikely to be negative equity. Their huge pensions (133k for retiring head of gov't department like Don Thornhill) are being protected and to pay for it new taxes are brought in.

Neither anyone from the real private sector and the new generation of young families were represented on the report: Only public sector Croke Park beneficiaries.

That is the issue this thread wishes to debate. For substantive discussion of the property tax itself, see Gerhard Dengler's thread.
Lots of people have suggested taxing those on 100 K more, increasing the rate of their USC, means testing their allowances and so on. The reason this never happens is obvious if that were to happen senior figures in the permanent Government would have to penalise themselves financially and otherwise. The way decisions of the nature you describe are arrived at is the ultimate moral hazard but it is Yes, Minister all the way. It is hard to see how this issue could be addressed but it does illustrate a fundamental rottenness at the heart of the system.
 

onlyasking

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Joined
Dec 19, 2008
Messages
5,735
This would not be by any chance another anti-CPA, anti-civil service thread masquerading as something else, would it?.....

So the report was "rubber stamped by the inside left establishment"....God, there must have been a long queue for the rubber-stamping machines in that case...

And it was drafted "mostly by civil servants" who are "unlikely to be in negative equity". Bit of a wild guess there I'd say, unless you know them all and their boom-time spending habits personally.....

Maybe some of the "new generation of young families" you are weeping for are ALSO protected by the dreaded Croke Park deal, and are "beneficiaries" of it...

So no doubt you will be happy about that little nugget of good news anyway...
Excellent riposte to a piece that could have been typed by a barfly churnalist like Ian O'Doherty.

The OP is akin to a house of cards constructed out of lazy assumptions. As if we haven't had thousands of them already.
 

onlyasking

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Joined
Dec 19, 2008
Messages
5,735
Actually they've been screwed by the older generation too.

New entrants to the PS will earn 30% less than the older generation that was partly responsible for all the policy failures.
Those little details would have bolstered your OP.

Why didn't they make the cut?
 
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