Over 500 new residential developments named i nGaeilge amháin over the last few years



Culann

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Maybe he's a native English-speaker and is more at home in that language.
Ye but isn't the party he represents all for the promotion of the language and aren't the party he represnts in Galway all for the exact same thing?
 

bradán feasa

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The section stated above does not allow for residential developments to be translated into English. It allows for Irish names only.

With regards roads etc if the council feel there is a safety issue etc they may allow for infrastructure such as roads to have an English translation.

FG’s Cllr Holloway was playing politics to a certain extent in opposing it. But I suspect that he and some other FGers are against anything other than lip service to the language.
 

Fun with Irish

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Ye but isn't the party he represents all for the promotion of the language and aren't the party he represnts in Galway all for the exact same thing?
I'm not really sure. Enda Kenny said one time that Irish should be a subject of choice after the Junior Cert, but I don't know if that's FG policy. Government policy is to preserve the rights of the minority who want to use Irish and alongside that to maintain a public image of Irish as a part of the national symbolism. But I can't link any of this to the reality of the community, where everybody is a native English-speaker with no intention of being anything else. So: I'm really not sure what the SF and FG chaps are locking horns about.

But one thing anyway: it's good to restrict the number of Blenheim Gardens and Windsor Groves in our housing estate names.
 

Mitsui

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Local media might be interested to see where the placenames came from etc. A survey of the residents might be good, to see if they understand the name of the road they are living on.
Here in Wexford around where I live we had a lot of estates flung up during the boom. The names were a constant puzzle. Very few actually had anything at all to do with the areas where they were located. The most common seemed to be named "aspirationally" - presuming that your aspiration was to live in the English Home Counties, that is. The Irish-named ones were, if anything, even stranger, since I don't think there's a single one of them bearing a name its residents understand. Certainly I don't, and while my Irish was only of Hons Leaving Cert. standard (several decades ago) and I can nowadays construct only the most simple sentence in Irish, I can still make a fair fist of reading Irish language publications. There are a few estate names that, out of sheer puzzlement, I've actually asked Irish teachers of my acquaintance to translate, mainly with no success. I used to wonder whether there was some kind of special grant available for developers who used Irish names. Certainly most of the developers involved had sfa interest in Irish per se, though they had a great grá altogether for anything that translated into extra money.
 

Culann

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I'm not really sure. Enda Kenny said one time that Irish should be a subject of choice after the Junior Cert, but I don't know if that's FG policy. Government policy is to preserve the rights of the minority who want to use Irish and alongside that to maintain a public image of Irish as a part of the national symbolism. But I can't link any of this to the reality of the community, where everybody is a native English-speaker with no intention of being anything else. So: I'm really not sure what the SF and FG chaps are locking horns about. .
Don't forget there are Gaeltacht areas around Navan and Trim who are native Irish speakers and that Gaeilge is our national language.

But one thing anyway: it's good to restrict the number of Blenheim Gardens and Windsor Groves in our housing estate names.
I agree with that bit. There is no Ballydehob or its likes to be found in Britain so I don't know why we have to opt for Westminister this and Shewsbury that
 

Fun with Irish

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Here in Wexford around where I live we had a lot of estates flung up during the boom. The names were a constant puzzle. Very few actually had anything at all to do with the areas where they were located. The most common seemed to be named "aspirationally" - presuming that your aspiration was to live in the English Home Counties, that is. The Irish-named ones were, if anything, even stranger, since I don't think there's a single one of them bearing a name its residents understand. Certainly I don't, and while my Irish was only of Hons Leaving Cert. standard (several decades ago) and I can nowadays construct only the most simple sentence in Irish, I can still make a fair fist of reading Irish language publications. There are a few estate names that, out of sheer puzzlement, I've actually asked Irish teachers of my acquaintance to translate, mainly with no success. I used to wonder whether there was some kind of special grant available for developers who used Irish names. Certainly most of the developers involved had sfa interest in Irish per se, though they had a great grá altogether for anything that translated into extra money.
In times past the great source book was Joyce's 'Irish Place Names', which is enjoyable to brouse through. Examples: he writes: 'Uggool'; five places in galway and Mayo (and nowhere else); means simply a hollow; so understood by all local shanachies." Or "The League' in Cork; 'liag', a pillar stone'.
 

Fun with Irish

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Don't forget there are Gaeltacht areas around Navan and Trim who are native Irish speakers and that Gaeilge is our national language."

I suppose that we would have to define 'native speakers' if we were to go any further, but I guess it does not matter all that much. Let's focus on the fun parts. And agreed: the Consitution says that Gaeilge is our first national language.
 

Culann

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Don't forget there are Gaeltacht areas around Navan and Trim who are native Irish speakers and that Gaeilge is our national language."

I suppose that we would have to define 'native speakers' if we were to go any further, but I guess it does not matter all that much. Let's focus on the fun parts. And agreed: the Consitution says that Gaeilge is our first national language.
Would you doubt that the Irish language community in Gaeltacht Ráth Chairn, for example, are native speakers of Gaeilge, or could it be interputed that they are not?

I always focus on the fun parts. Just back from the Oireachtas in Letterkenny. Great craic! Féile na Mí will be on in Rath Chairn the weekend of Friday week. About 90% of what I speak every day is Gaeilge. I experience fun and all the other parts of daily life through Gaeilge.

We are agreed regarding the Bunreacht. I think there should be a referendum and that muintir na hÉireann should put up with and accept whatever decision we make. Unfortunately though, for the anti-Irish brigade, I anticipate it would be bad news.
 

Fun with Irish

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Here in Wexford around where I live we had a lot of estates flung up during the boom. The names were a constant puzzle. Very few actually had anything at all to do with the areas where they were located. The most common seemed to be named "aspirationally" - presuming that your aspiration was to live in the English Home Counties, that is. The Irish-named ones were, if anything, even stranger, since I don't think there's a single one of them bearing a name its residents understand. Certainly I don't, and while my Irish was only of Hons Leaving Cert. standard (several decades ago) and I can nowadays construct only the most simple sentence in Irish, I can still make a fair fist of reading Irish language publications. There are a few estate names that, out of sheer puzzlement, I've actually asked Irish teachers of my acquaintance to translate, mainly with no success. I used to wonder whether there was some kind of special grant available for developers who used Irish names. Certainly most of the developers involved had sfa interest in Irish per se, though they had a great grá altogether for anything that translated into extra money.
A few more...

Wexford: Bolabraddagh: thievish booley
Wexford: Bolacaheer: Buaile-Cathaoir, Cahir's or Charles's booley.
Wexford: Boleynasa: Buaile-an-easa, the booley of the waterfall
Wexford: Bolinaspick: Baile-an-espuig, the bishop's booley
In several counties: Carrigroe, red rock
Wexford: Cloroge: Clotharog, dim of Clochar or Clothar, stony land.

(I better go back to work)
 

Fun with Irish

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We are agreed regarding the Bunreacht. I think there should be a referendum and that muintir na hÉireann should put up with and accept whatever decision we make. Unfortunately though, for the anti-Irish brigade, I anticipate it would be bad news.
Live and let live. It takes a lot of commitment to employ a language, any language, that is not the vernacular language of the surrounding community. Most people just to use their mother tongue without having to think about it. So OK. Why not, as long as you can understand them.

I have to sign off now. 'Bye.
 

Sancho

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In the early 90's Galway City councillors passed a motion that in order to help foster a strong bilingual city that all future new residential developments would be named solely in Irish. Shannon councillors have also passed in effect the same motion and it is council policy in Cork County Council that all social developments be named in Irish also although in the latter the policy does not often get implemented.

In 2003 Gael-Taca in Cork came out with a free service to property developments to give them names in Irish for their choice of names. Since then over 200 developments have been named in Irish through them. Every developer on the island has received an information package from Gael-Taca; many have been contacted twice and a good few of them- although largely in Munster only- were rang. Pádraig Ó Cuanacháin their Marketing Director who died last year was the man responsible for dealing with the developers although I believe others in the organisation actually came up with the names.

Recently as I am working part-time and have a good bit of free time I went through some property websites (mainly daft.ie) for several counties and made slideshows of the developments named in Irish and uploaded them on Slideshare.net. I told myself that I would just do a few. But as seen as I have a lot of free time I said "Sure why not do them all." I have done 22 counties and will have over 400 names. I'll be finished them all on Tuesday or Wednesday and will try to get some coverage in the media for the topic.

I have uploaded the slideshows for 11 counties. I will let you all know when I am finished.

The counties so far with the most developments in Irish over the last few years are:

Donegal 33
Westmeath 18
Longford 18
Leitrim 24
Wexford 25
Clare 39
Kerry 33
Monaghan 17
Tipperary 20

The majority overall in Galway are also named in Irish but I have yet to do that county. There are also a very large number in county Cork (there are few in the city and suburbs) and I believe a significant number in Wexford. There are a significant number in Cavan also. These are the four I have yet do.

I think that all councils- county, city and town- should have naming committees. Several counties have them. The use of names in Irish should be officially encouraged although not required unless councillors vote to name all of their developments in Irish (and, no, I am not going to bother lobbying them about the latter). All developments should in my view be named bilingually at a minimum with equal-status in terms of size and font on the entrance pillars to new developments. The developer of course should be free to market whatever name he wants.

I am posting this up now instead of waiting until I am finished as frankly I find the development (or developments) very exciting and I was in Gael-Taca and had the honour of working with Pádraig Ó Cuanacháin. I sent him down the names of around 250 developments over a four year period and he contacted the developers commending them on their decision to choose an Irish name(s) and informing them of their free service for the future if they wanted to use it. Given that Irish was for most years since independence a sign of failure I find this development(s)- largely over the last 5/6 years- to be brilliant. It shows that the language has economic value and is popular if people choose to make use of out it as a marketing tool...

The counties with the smallest number of developments named in Irish I could see in terms of the overall number of developments are 1) Dublin 11 2) Kildare 9 3) Carlow 5 4) Laois 6 and 7) Wicklow 1.

Again, I will post up when I am finished. I believe that my little 'project' is going to be a great resource and very encouraging for those of us who love the language.

Darren Prior’s Presentations on SlideShare

Le dea-mhéin

Darren
Maith thú, Darren, I'm glad to hear it. I know of two townhouse developments in Clontarf, North Dublin called St John's Wood and Knightsbridge. The blood boils - why not legislate that every estate to be built in Ireland must be named after an area of London.

We have names of our own, a heritage of our own, a history of our own. A case of property developers aping our English betters, but very glad to hear that someone is doing something about it
 

Mitsui

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Maith thú, Darren, I'm glad to hear it. I know of two townhouse developments in Clontarf, North Dublin called St John's Wood and Knightsbridge.
My favourite "what-the-hell???" name is actually a pretty old one, from the 80s - Dalcassian Downs in Phibsborough/Glasnevin. It was the first "Downs" I'd seen in Ireland, and the combination of the historical "Dalcassian" with the English "Downs" did my head in.

There were some great stories about the mad construction methods used in that place too, an early version of some of the skimping, codding and general rip-off muppetry that became entirely commonplace during the construction boom.

I remember getting our (1950s) house in Dublin surveyed back in the late 90s, the surveyor told me he really enjoyed surveying older houses and I asked if he meant that the builders didn't skimp back then.

"It's not so much that," he said. "They did skimp when they could, but even when they skimped they did a better job than the ****ers that are building 'properly' nowadays"
 

scratchnsniff

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personally i think that new estates should be given provisional names, then when more than 70% of the houses are sold, the new owners could put forward suggestions with reasoning and they could vote on the name themselves. it needn't be to Bureaucratic.
On a slightly different scale, we are hoping to build a house soon. I would like to name it with the 1st part of our surname followed by worthy. It is English, (Anglicized from Norse a Millennium ago). But i fell in love with the name when I visited Wolfhadisworthy, in Devon years ago. It means place, as in wolfhads place. After a Danish king who ruled the area. I would be mighty p,ssed if some local parochial objected. I think residents should have the final say in the naming. It should not be politicized.
 

DJP

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Has the policy definitely been accepted in Navan? Did it get cross-party support? I welcome it personally. However stupid names in Irish are in the same category as stupid names in English so I hope that the council if it doesn't already has a naming committee to give the developments appropriate names. I like the part about the appropiateness of their naming Bradán Feasa. Hopefully that will be the case.
 

Fun with Irish

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Has the policy definitely been accepted in Navan? Did it get cross-party support? I welcome it personally. However stupid names in Irish are in the same category as stupid names in English so I hope that the council if it doesn't already has a naming committee to give the developments appropriate names. I like the part about the appropiateness of their naming Bradán Feasa. Hopefully that will be the case.
Navan was re-named An Uaibh for a while, an action taken at local government official level, I think. the Council organised a plebescite to put the name back to Navan and the voters then did so. O Cuiv had hoped to legally block that response by people to the Gaeltacht name changes that he implemented. Does anybody know the situation under the amendment to that law that Gormley brought in? Allowing both an English and an Irish version of a place name in a Gaeltacht area?
 

bradán feasa

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Yes indeed Darren. Its signed sealed and delivered. Tóibín of SF proposed it 2 years ago and had to battle with Holloway of FG on 4 separate occasions. Holloway brought up the civil war, the conflict in the north, tried to intimate that it was a sectarian charter, that it was exclusivist etc. Finally it was supported by Labour and independents.

FF opposed it but more so to make life difficult for the new group on the council.
 

DJP

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Yes indeed Darren. Its signed sealed and delivered. Tóibín of SF proposed it 2 years ago and had to battle with Holloway of FG on 4 separate occasions. Holloway brought up the civil war, the conflict in the north, tried to intimate that it was a sectarian charter, that it was exclusivist etc. Finally it was supported by Labour and independents.

FF opposed it but more so to make life difficult for the new group on the council.
Chatted to John (?) Holloway by email about it. Said that he just did not like the language the last time of the motion- "must"- and, I think, that the motion talking about compelling the business sector as in shops etc. to have Irish/bilingual signage.

The motion must have been unoffensive for it to have been passed. Do you have a copy of it? Disappointing to see that FG and FF were against it. Were any of them in favour of it?

The policy is in Galway City and Shannon which compliments the distinctiveness of the areas. Which, for example, is great for tourists. Even people I know from Navan- and I have family there- don't like the town. So I would think that this should be a welcome move in giving the town a certain distintiveness.
 


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