• It has come to our attention that some users may have been "banned" when they tried to change their passwords after the site was hacked due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software. This would have occurred around the end of February and does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you believe you were affected by this, please contact a staff member or use the Contact us link at the bottom of any forum page.

P.ie posters: would you join and help run a new liberal party ?


cyberianpan

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 18, 2006
Messages
16,630
Website
www.google.com
Ever since the economic crisis and decline of FF and the near/extinction of the Greens/PDs there's been talk of a new party in Ireland. With Independents scoring over 20% in the opinion polls I think it is clear there is a market for one...but are people willing to set one up?

A national political party will require a good few hundred comitted members/activists just to get a few TDs elected. It strikes me that those who post on p.ie are very likely to be interested in volunteering in order to be part of real change. Offline I know a group of about 20-40 people who are "classical liberals" (socially and economically liberal) who are willing to make the effort. So if you think you might, and I repeat might be a potential volunteer for such a party click "Like" on this post. Here's the description of the views such a party would coalesce around

True liberals. Who believe in freedom of the individual with a neutral and thus small State. All it should do is:
1)Prevent direct harm (criminal justice etc)
2) Ensure children's rights (education etc)
3) A basic social safety net

So this means socially liberal (gay ppl cool,legalize drugs etc) and economically liberal (low taxes,let ppl make own choices,State ensures good info for that). However the change wouldn't be radical/overnight and with people comitted to moderation.

In addition such a party would pride itself/campaign on 3 grounds:

Efficiency: irrelevant of policy/normative views to bring good sensible practices to government and the wider public sector. These would be delivered by seasoned people already proven in a wide diversity of fields (more than just lawyers and schoolteachers)
Ethics : Both that the members, and especially elected representatives would sign up to a new kind of politics and that the party would be fairly governed
Policy: lots of lovely policy, taking ideas from behavioural economics, business management, academics ...basically whatever works !


cYp
 

Sister Mercedes

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
20,663
That's the sort of Party that Ireland needs. But it would suffer from appalling memories of the PD's in office, who began as a Liberal Party and morphed into the 3rd most corrupt party in the history of the State (after SF and FF).
 

pragmaticapproach

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 21, 2010
Messages
8,817
Ever since the economic crisis and decline of FF and the near/extinction of the Greens/PDs there's been talk of a new party in Ireland. With Independents scoring over 20% in the opinion polls I think it is clear there is a market for one...but are people willing to set one up?

A national political party will require a good few hundred comitted members/activists just to get a few TDs elected. It strikes me that those who post on p.ie are very likely to be interested in volunteering in order to be part of real change. Offline I know a group of about 20-40 people who are "classical liberals" (socially and economically liberal) who are willing to make the effort. So if you think you might, and I repeat might be a potential volunteer for such a party click "Like" on this post. Here's the description of the views such a party would coalesce around

True liberals. Who believe in freedom of the individual with a neutral and thus small State. All it should do is:
1)Prevent direct harm (criminal justice etc)
2) Ensure children's rights (education etc)
3) A basic social safety net

So this means socially liberal (gay ppl cool,legalize drugs etc) and economically liberal (low taxes,let ppl make own choices,State ensures good info for that). However the change wouldn't be radical/overnight and with people comitted to moderation.

In addition such a party would pride itself/campaign on 3 grounds:

Efficiency: irrelevant of policy/normative views to bring good sensible practices to government and the wider public sector. These would be delivered by seasoned people already proven in a wide diversity of fields (more than just lawyers and schoolteachers)
Ethics : Both that the members, and especially elected representatives would sign up to a new kind of politics and that the party would be fairly governed
Policy: lots of lovely policy, taking ideas from behavioural economics, business management, academics ...basically whatever works !


cYp
What you're describing is now refered to, broadly speaking as libertarian, liberal is pretty much obsolete when describing a desire for less government and respect for individual liberties, "liberal" is used in the same context as it is on the other side of the pond.

Anyway, what we need is a civic nationalist, hard euroskeptic(pulling out of the EU completely) libertarian leaning party, similar to UKIP.

Its policies should be

*The introduction of a modest flat tax with a universal tax credit to replace the current progressive taxation system.
* Drastically reducing expenditure.
* seriously cutting useless red tape as much as absolutely possible, simplifying regulations that are deemed necessary.
* Easing legal tender laws to allow the use of competing currencies.
* contracting out a huge chunk of the the public sectors current responsibilities(ie privatisation of the prison system etc)
*The introduction of school and basic health insurance vouchers, with the state pulling out of the supply side of these services, leaving any intervention to local government if deemed necessary.
*Decriminalisation of most drugs, with the decision to permit and regulate the sale and supply left to local governments.
*The ending of the practice of suspended sentences for repeat offenders, and the refusal of legal aid after two convictions.
*pulling out of the EU and joining the EFTA
 
Last edited:

Dan_Murphy

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 22, 2010
Messages
3,811
What about those of us who have no experience in political parties?
 

Prester Jim

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Messages
10,071
Ever since the economic crisis and decline of FF and the near/extinction of the Greens/PDs there's been talk of a new party in Ireland. With Independents scoring over 20% in the opinion polls I think it is clear there is a market for one...but are people willing to set one up?

A national political party will require a good few hundred comitted members/activists just to get a few TDs elected. It strikes me that those who post on p.ie are very likely to be interested in volunteering in order to be part of real change. Offline I know a group of about 20-40 people who are "classical liberals" (socially and economically liberal) who are willing to make the effort. So if you think you might, and I repeat might be a potential volunteer for such a party click "Like" on this post. Here's the description of the views such a party would coalesce around

True liberals. Who believe in freedom of the individual with a neutral and thus small State. All it should do is:
1)Prevent direct harm (criminal justice etc)
2) Ensure children's rights (education etc)
3) A basic social safety net

So this means socially liberal (gay ppl cool,legalize drugs etc) and economically liberal (low taxes,let ppl make own choices,State ensures good info for that). However the change wouldn't be radical/overnight and with people comitted to moderation.

In addition such a party would pride itself/campaign on 3 grounds:

Efficiency: irrelevant of policy/normative views to bring good sensible practices to government and the wider public sector. These would be delivered by seasoned people already proven in a wide diversity of fields (more than just lawyers and schoolteachers)
Ethics : Both that the members, and especially elected representatives would sign up to a new kind of politics and that the party would be fairly governed
Policy: lots of lovely policy, taking ideas from behavioural economics, business management, academics ...basically whatever works !


cYp
But why didn't you join and support the PDs when they were going? (maybe you did, what do I know)
I think the history of the state's political parties would not suggest a bright future for such a party IMO.
There is a small group of people who would support it, mostly within the richer areas of Dublin, but even there the support would not be great.
What makes you think things have changed as regarding electorally unpalatable, free market parties.
 

Cato

Moderator
Joined
Aug 21, 2005
Messages
20,561
Stranger things have happened ...
 

Sister Mercedes

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
20,663
What you're describing is now refered to, broadly speaking as libertarian, liberal is pretty much obsolete when describing a desire for less government and respect for individual liberties, "liberal" is used in the same context as it is on the other side of the pond.
Libertarians don't believe in a social welfare safety net, or any transfers from rich to poor. Liberals, in a European context, do. Just not to the same degree as Socialists.
 

cyberianpan

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 18, 2006
Messages
16,630
Website
www.google.com
What you're describing is now refered to, broadly speaking as libertarian, liberal is pretty much obsolete when describing a desire for less government and respect for individual liberties, "liberal" is used in the same context as it is on the other side of the pond.

.
You are correct. Academically speaking what I described would be soft libertarian, the problem is there are fruitcakes in the US who label themselves as Libertarian but are in fact ...welll loons !

cYp
 

Boy M5

Well-known member
Joined
May 20, 2010
Messages
21,731
No. In short its the PDs part 2.
Even 10 years ago I was castigating them as the lads who'd only read the 1st chapter of the economics text book.

I think they destroyed Ireland, certainly it was their economic policies, including light touch regulation (McCreevy was the nexus of FF populism and PD economic policy).
Also I am more socially conservative.

That said, I have no great faith in the main parties, their machines, and dynasties. So I wish you well. Particularly as you trying to do something constructive.
 

Dan_Murphy

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 22, 2010
Messages
3,811
Definitely wanted ! Real world experience is what politics lacks!

cYp
I don't have much in the way of real world experience either!

I'm not really a free market liberal, not too much anyway, I just want to pay taxes and be confident its well spent.
 

Prester Jim

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Messages
10,071
Stranger things have happened ...
Personally, I think we need a "clean the Aegean stables" party, not another PDs. Who knows though, certainly the current bunch are uninspiring generally.
 

cyberianpan

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 18, 2006
Messages
16,630
Website
www.google.com
But why didn't you join and support the PDs when they were going? (maybe you did, what do I know).
I was sympathetic to the PDs but didn't like either Harney or McDowell - also I found both of them a bit too socially conservative

What makes you think things have changed as regarding electorally unpalatable, free market parties.
I don't think Ireland was really all that free market...we'd a herd of priviliged bankers run the wrong direction cheered on and aided by frankly corrupt government.

cYp
 

Prester Jim

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Messages
10,071
I am socially Conservative and economically Left.

I'd not be much good to you...
Does this mean you aren't invited to parties and keep all your money in change, in your left hand pocket?
 
Top