Paisley wants Ireland re-united

SevenStars

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The GFA isnt worth the British paper its written on.
 


Anglo Celt

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If we permit the population of the six 'occupied' counties to merge with us, would they shoulder their share of our national debt?

If so, let's agree to to admit them, we'll just have to turn a blind eye to their neanderthal mindset, raucous laughter and offensive accents.
The neanderthal mindset seems quite alive in the republic if this forum is anything to go by.
 

hiker

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And the future queen of spain is hot, she could rule me anyday she likes :D

Very classy indeed.
You see I would not object so much to royalty if they just this pretty.

Maybe its just the english royals! Mind you that young Kate lassie looks a goer.
 
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Dr Pat

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What are you lot on about? Wishful thinking I would say! Nonsense to talk about GFA being invalidated. Worst thread ever apart from this post, of course!
 

SevenStars

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The GFA has already been thrown in the bin of history. Its been replaced by another "agreement" named after some Scottish golf course.
 

Fir Bolg

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:roll:

Have you even read what we were talking about before you spat your dummy out? We were talking about the GFA and the effects that Irelands current situation will have on it.
Yes I have read what you have been talking about.

The GFA is an international agreement between 2 countries. How will it change as a result of the meltdown in the financial sector?
 

Interista

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hiker

If I am not mistaken, you have posted a picture of Mary, Crown Princess of Denmark.

Nothing to do with Spain at all.
 

Cruimh

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Yes I have read what you have been talking about.

The GFA is an international agreement between 2 countries. How will it change as a result of the meltdown in the financial sector?
It won't change - but will it be valid if the ROI no longer has full sovereignty? It was made between two sovereign governments - if the ROI loses sovereignty - then will it not be invalidated ?
 

Mushroom

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The neanderthal mindset seems quite alive in the republic if this forum is anything to go by.

Lots of Nordies down here and they don't leave their mindsets at the border.
 

Odyessus

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I was wondering earlier if Ireland's loss of sovereignty would affect the GFA - and similarly - would this be possible with the GFA in place ?

"Loss of sovereignty" is simply a rhetorical expression in the present case. It has no legal status. Ireland is as sovereign now as it was when the GFA was signed, and will be just as sovereign if and when a loan agreement is signed with the IMF et al.

Did the UK lose its sovereignty when they had to call in the IMF in 1976?
 

Fir Bolg

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It won't change - but will it be valid if the ROI no longer has full sovereignty? It was made between two sovereign governments - if the ROI loses sovereignty - then will it not be invalidated ?
Of course it will still be valid. It is not a financial agreement. It is a political agreement, and partial loss of control over fiscal affairs does not affect it.
 

Superindigoman

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I cant believe people are even discussing this, whats happening, we go through a rough time so we just give up, kop on, stand up and help us get on our feet, you should have more pride and belief.
 

SlickWilly

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If you have issues with the Irish public service now, those issues would be vastly worse give the Nordies massive one under such an arangement!
 

Anglo Celt

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I cant believe people are even discussing this, whats happening, we go through a rough time so we just give up, kop on, stand up and help us get on our feet, you should have more pride and belief.
I don't see what's so 'unbelievable'. People kept lobbing that argument to Unionism whilst we were borrowing ourselves into wealth. Whats good for the goose... ;)
 

Scipio

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If Ireland is no longer in control of her own destiny - is the GFA invalidated ?

The only options possible under the GFA are status quo and NI leaving the UK.

So - even assuming that the EU or IMF or whoever is in charge said it was OK for ROI to rejoin - and it would raise all sorts of issues about currency - and even if the UK agreed - would it be possible ?
Ireland is not losing her "sovereignty" in a technical sense, she still is and will remain an independent country à la Iceland, Hungary, Latvia et al. No impact will be felt as regards binding non-financial international agreements.

What she is getting, is a loan to sort out her broken banking system, of which 1/3 will come from the IMF, and 2/3 from the European Union, in order to accomplish this. The loan will have to be paid back.

Neither the IMF, nor the EU, will be coming to rule Ireland. Any cuts made will be imposed by the government, not the money men. The only thing changing is that instead of being reliant on the international bond markets, Ireland will now be exiting them for at least the next two years.

In short, it will zero effect on the Belfast Agreement.
 

Green eyed monster

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It won't change - but will it be valid if the ROI no longer has full sovereignty? It was made between two sovereign governments - if the ROI loses sovereignty - then will it not be invalidated ?
I think you are misreading the situation.

Ireland will never lose sovereignty in the sense you are implying.

When people talk of us losing sovereignty they are referring to stern economic conditions being imposed which limits how the Government may act, but even those conditions could be thrown off at any time if the elected representatives chose to - in line with the constitution. At any moment there exists within the state (people+politicians) the power to ignore any agreements made with anyone outside the state, membership of UN, EU membership, membership of ECHR, you name it - even articles 2 and 3 could be written back in.

As for Ian Paisley, he sums up the sadly mistaken attitudes of many Unionist posters here, believing that conditions at the mo - such as they are changes something in the Republic to their advantage. All i am reading about is an economic crisis, i am not reading anything that suggests attitudes about our nation being Independent etc has changed in any way. It's like hearing that a number 202 bus is on it's way so you make your way to the shelter to catch the incoming number 103 bus.
 

Cruimh

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I think you are misreading the situation.

Ireland will never lose sovereignty in the sense you are implying.

When people talk of us losing sovereignty they are referring to stern economic conditions being imposed which limits how the Government may act, but even those conditions could be thrown off at any time if the elected representatives chose to - in line with the constitution. At any moment there exists within the state (people+politicians) the power to ignore any agreements made with anyone outside the state, membership of UN, EU membership, membership of ECHR, you name it - even articles 2 and 3 could be written back in.
OK - let's run with a scenario.

The IMF/EU won't be supporting the ROI without some say in the economy.

In 5 years time a miracle happens - the people of NI have voted for unification.

The people of the ROI have also said yes.

The ROI is facing taking on another financial liability.

The IMF/EU have Lord Knows how many billions sunk into the ROI - do you think they would allow the ROI to take on the financial responsibility of NI?
 

Scipio

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OK - let's run with a scenario.

The IMF/EU won't be supporting the ROI without some say in the economy.

In 5 years time a miracle happens - the people of NI have voted for unification.

The people of the ROI have also said yes.

The ROI is facing taking on another financial liability.

The IMF/EU have Lord Knows how many billions sunk into the ROI - do you think they would allow the ROI to take on the financial responsibility of NI?
If the people of Ireland voted for it, there's no way they could oppose it save by refusing to advance any more money than they already have, like any lender.

If neither they nor the bond markets (and let's hope in 5 years things will have evolved) would be willing to loan a new Ireland money, then we'd simply all have to make further cuts, or pull an Argentina and unilaterally restructure our debt without the IMF's approval.
 

Cruimh

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If the people of Ireland voted for it, there's no way they could oppose it save by refusing to advance any more money than they already have, like any lender.

If neither they nor the bond markets (and let's hope in 5 years things will have evolved) would be willing to loan a new Ireland money, then we'd simply all have to make further cuts.
The devil will be in the detail of the agreement for the money .....
But there are ways they can put an enormous amount of pressure on any member government, let alone one whose economy they control.
 

Green eyed monster

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OK - let's run with a scenario.

The IMF/EU won't be supporting the ROI without some say in the economy.

In 5 years time a miracle happens - the people of NI have voted for unification.

The people of the ROI have also said yes.

The ROI is facing taking on another financial liability.

The IMF/EU have Lord Knows how many billions sunk into the ROI - do you think they would allow the ROI to take on the financial responsibility of NI?
How would they stop us, do they have an army?

The Constitution trumps the IMF and the EU and anyone else - in fact the will of the people trumps even the Constitution (in theory), the Irish people can still tell the IMF where to go. There would be consequences in any decision we made but we could still make that decision.

Your economic situation limits the choices that are palatable but in terms of a nation's sovereignty it doesn't make those key choices which are concerned with Ireland impossible.
 


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