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Ardillaun

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Maybe the biggest long term change will be the acceptability of "working from home" and the positive impacts this could have on traffic congestion this coming winter.
That might be a major change. I never used Zoom before Covid. It will be interesting to see where commercial property values go and how urban centres evolve.


What strikes me about the Lockdown is how easy it was to take away civil liberties in countries with a long history of freedom and democracy. I think this only happened because the virus started in China. Lockdown was the natural authoritarian response, and it worked reasonably well for them. As the virus traveled west, other countries followed suit, but in a less effective way, simply because they could think of no other response than the one the Chinese had pioneered.
I see it more as a prudent human response to a serious external threat, similar to the adaptations in war. Disease-related lockdowns have a long European history:


 

Ardillaun

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I knew already that I was as familiar with events in a foreign country as my own, something Irish people can identify with, but COVID has really brought this home. Perhaps being stuck in front of MSNBC/CNN eight hours a day plays a role here. Americans do love their numbers - those infection and mortality totals are constantly updated in dramatic fashion - whereas the Canadian coverage often features a provincial medical officer of health blinking awkwardly in the light and chiding us about masks.

A thing I have learned - streaks on Duolingo (an online language learning program) are not that difficult to keep going. I’m on day 180 now but getting nowhere fast with the actual languages involved. Started Russian yesterday. So far it seems easier than Irish.
 

toughbutfair

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That society is only a scare away from collapse. The day the schools shut there were food runs at the supermarket, bought about 6 months of non perishable food.
 

Rural

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I knew already that I was as familiar with events in a foreign country as my own, something Irish people can identify with, but COVID has really brought this home. Perhaps being stuck in front of MSNBC/CNN eight hours a day plays a role here. Americans do love their numbers - those infection and mortality totals are constantly updated in dramatic fashion - whereas the Canadian coverage often features a provincial medical officer of health blinking awkwardly in the light and chiding us about masks.

A thing I have learned - streaks on Duolingo (an online language learning program) are not that difficult to keep going. I’m on day 180 now but getting nowhere fast with the actual languages involved. Started Russian yesterday. So far it seems easier than Irish.
Day 763 Duolingo Español. Un poco todos los días.
 

recedite

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I see it more as a prudent human response to a serious external threat, similar to the adaptations in war. Disease-related lockdowns have a long European history:
Way back then, Europe was a lot more authoritarian than now. But even so, the measures they took were directed towards sick/diseased people. This idea that healthy people should be locked down/quarantined/cocooned is new.
For example...
"That's a feature of many accounts of the plague in early modern Italy. They tried to identify the first person who brought the plague into the city or state and tried to track down all their contacts, who were then kept confined for forty days to their houses or in large isolation centres outside the city walls," Henderson tells RFI.
Identify the diseased/unclean people and force them to live separately in a leper colony. That's a classic response.
Or...
The other feature of public health measures at the time included setting up cordons sanitaires along the state borders in order to stop people travelling from one state to the other.
Barricades at the borders of states, towns and villages, manned by villagers with pitchforks, trying to stop foreigners bringing in the plague. Another classic response. But very different to what we have done. Dublin has airport remained open throughout, with little or no interference to people traveling in. Most recently they have been asked to sign a form saying where they are staying, and telling them they should really be quarantining, and that's about it.
 

AyaanMyHero

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This I believe was a situation where we did not have any clear fixed and agreed aim. Save the heath system, flatten the curve, eradicate the disease, protect the economy, open the schools. These aims are not all compatible. In such circumstances one needs to place a weighting factor on the competing aims but we did not do that in any country.

Setting the weights is akin to answering a question like this: How many person years of unemployment equals the life of an 80 year old ? In some countries, these questions were asked and in other countries, the question was not even asked.

When you have an organised government regulated response, one must have a defined aim. If you are not willing to define what your aim is or if people cannot agree on what it is then a regulated response cannot be effective.

In other fields where there are choices and it is not clear what the right choice is, then we leave it to individuals to choose. If people believe that we live with a long term threat of contagious and deadly diseases, it might be worth considering whether tightly regulated responses are the best answer and consider the pitfalls that would need to be negotiated in an unregulated response (some regulation is always needed).
 

toughbutfair

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Day 763 Duolingo Español. Un poco todos los días.
Well done. You need to practice listening and speaking too. I suggest newsinslowspanish.com where they talk about the week’s news but speak slowly so that students can hear each word separately. Try speaking with the wall at first, invent scenarios and speak out loud. When you can speak a bit there are conversation apps where you can speak with Spanish speakers studying English. Speak 20 minutes in one language and then 20 in the other.
 

owedtojoy

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On Newstalk yesterday, there was a lady named Margaret Heffernan (not the Dunnes Stores one) who last year wrote a book called Uncharted, about the potential for unexpected, unplanned events. She had devoted a whole chapter to the possibilites of a pandemic that is now considered quite prescient.

Her view is that Governments are unprepared for events like this because they have become obsessed with cost-efficiency and cost-benefit analysis in the short term. She said they are fine if you have perfect knowledge of the future, but you never have.

(I think myself this is an outcome of the neo-liberalism or Reagan-Thatcherism, which valorised "small government", slim or no public services and low taxes. That is looking a very poor proposition now).

Libertarianism like Nozick's Anarchy, State and Utopia with its "Night-Watchman State" just managing national defence, law courts and police would have been an utter disaster in a pandemic, and perhaps Covid-19 has killed Libertarianism, and Ayn Rand's Objectivism or Glorified Selfishness into the bargain.

Government as Chief Risk Manager for Health, Education and Climate Change, as well as other functions, should be back firmly in the driving seat.

(Americans and Soviets spent trillions of expenditure in risk-managing the chances of a nuclear war. The USSR literally killed itself in the effort. In retrospect, was this money well spent? Who wants to risk-manage climate change or future pandemics or mass extinctions?)
 

Rural

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Well done. You need to practice listening and speaking too. I suggest newsinslowspanish.com where they talk about the week’s news but speak slowly so that students can hear each word separately. Try speaking with the wall at first, invent scenarios and speak out loud. When you can speak a bit there are conversation apps where you can speak with Spanish speakers studying English. Speak 20 minutes in one language and then 20 in the other.
Thanks for that, I get to speak a bit every day here in Spain (got very rusty during lockdown though)and the Spaniards are extremely helpful. I'll try out that site as I'm still a bit shy speaking it.
 

Gin Soaked

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Walking is great for mental health.

Kids are being traumatised by news coverage.

Look at the ED level detail on infections. The correlation with poverty is stark.

We have few leaders in our political class. They all need an induction into leadership behaviours . This should be done cross party, and the same course for all. Being employed as a TD should be like joining a new company.

Communication is really important. It has been sh1t since FF took the Health, Education and Taoiseach role.
 

Ardillaun

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Way back then, Europe was a lot more authoritarian than now. But even so, the measures they took were directed towards sick/diseased people.
And now we know that people who appear well can transmit disease. Restriction of certain liberties is entirely appropriate in a national emergency.
 

LISTOWEL MAN

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the listowel races are more or less cancelled

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LISTOWEL MAN

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How much I’d miss seeing the 5 or 6 best looking girls in the office every workday.
there is an absolutely disgusting man i know who lives in the Listowel area. He's always interfering with people and being nosy, he loves bothering people but since the lockdown, everyone wearing masks etc he is nowhere to be seen

it's as if he is dead and gone
 

Levellers

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there is an absolutely disgusting man i know who lives in the Listowel area. He's always interfering with people and being nosy, he loves bothering people but since the lockdown, everyone wearing masks etc he is nowhere to be seen

it's as if he is dead and gone
Does he send unsolicited pictures of his mickey to females?
 

yosef shompeter

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My two cents on this pandemic.
A casual glance through one of the Covid websites that deal with epidemiology... e.g. Worldometers.info or the John Hopkins dashboard ... or the RKI.de shows you that the pandemic has practically disappeared from PRP China. They have brought the figures down to 20 a day or less.
They explained for all and sundry that compulsory wearing of maks was a big help. They also had systematic spraying of the pavement with alcohol -- at least in the early stages. How come Europe and the Americas don't do likewise? Is it some thing to do with the tourist and hospitality business lobbies?

Or is it a gentle way of solving the old age pension problem? :confused:
 

Gin Soaked

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My two cents on this pandemic.
A casual glance through one of the Covid websites that deal with epidemiology... e.g. Worldometers.info or the John Hopkins dashboard ... or the RKI.de shows you that the pandemic has practically disappeared from PRP China. They have brought the figures down to 20 a day or less.
They explained for all and sundry that compulsory wearing of maks was a big help. They also had systematic spraying of the pavement with alcohol -- at least in the early stages. How come Europe and the Americas don't do likewise? Is it some thing to do with the tourist and hospitality business lobbies?

Or is it a gentle way of solving the old age pension problem? :confused:
It it was as easy as spraying alcohol on the paths, we would do that.

I would look at other data from China to gauge the effect...

Your question is ripe for conspiracy theories...
 

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