Paradoxically, high nursing pay causing shortages of nurses

damus

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INACCURATE PAY DATA
OECD show far higher pay than the INMO link above. OECD data shows Irish nurses pay about 40% higher than UK nurses' pay on a US$ ppp basis, purchasing power parity.
Pat - why do you think that hospitals like OLOL have 100 unfilled vacancies across the entire hospital system if the pay is so attractive?
 


ger12

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Did I suggest that?

I think it is reasonable to assume a career in nursing entails nursing hours and not 9-5. Therefore to quote a salary devoid of the premiums associated with those hours is fundamentally dishonest and entirely self serving.
No it's not. There's plenty of positions that don't involve and weekend work.
 

ShinnerBot No.32564844524

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You are a newly qualified nurse. You can do the following:

A) Be recruited internationally, travel abroad while young, work in a modern professional environment that is safe and secure, and that values you through continuous professional development, fixed working hours, supports and co workers who treat you with respect.

B) Be recruited by an FG government who don't value you enough to pay you appropriately, would rather patronise you by asking your parents to pressure you to come back instead of asking you with dignity, working in a dysfunctional system with dysfunctional hospital with not enough resources available to do your job, working next to free overtime heroically just to keep your patients alive, disrespected by the managerial team and the HSE in general with no professional supports, expected to pay your own costs in training, working in a dangerous environment where you are liable to be assaulted by drunks every weekend around.

Do you choose option A or B?

If you choose option A, would you ever change your mind to option B thereafter?

It ain't about money is it?
 

damus

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Why focus on nurses? the real need is for top class consultants who don't come cheap but who are not as media friendly.
Pat wants to only increase consultants pay in specialities where there's a shortage and the same with nurses. So you'll have a shortage in ortho's in Beaumont - we'll increase their pay.....which will lead to a shortage in Ortho's in Letterkenny....so we'll increase their pay and cut the pay in Beaumont. That's Pat's prescription in a nutshell.
 

patslatt

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Does that average pay you are quoting include all allowances, reasonable overtime and normal shift rates?
Nope.

Should all workers, or just nurses, be excluded from receiving allowances, reasonable overtime and normal shift rates?
Thanks for admitting Nope. But that means your challenge to the ~ €55,000 average nurses' pay in the OP is weakened, to say the least.
 

Analyzer

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Patslat will presumably not comment about the fact that the HSE is effectively bailing out the dominant brewing oligarchy on the island, every weekend.
 

damus

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You are a newly qualified nurse. You can do the following:

A) Be recruited internationally, travel abroad while young, work in a modern professional environment that is safe and secure, and that values you through continuous professional development, fixed working hours, supports and co workers who treat you with respect.

B) Be recruited by an FG government who don't value you enough to pay you appropriately, would rather patronise you by asking your parents to pressure you to come back instead of asking you with dignity, working in a dysfunctional system with dysfunctional hospital with not enough resources available to do your job, working next to free overtime heroically just to keep your patients alive, disrespected by the managerial team and the HSE in general with no professional supports, expected to pay your own costs in training, working in a dangerous environment where you are liable to be assaulted by drunks every weekend around.

Do you choose option A or B?

If you choose option A, would you ever change your mind to option B thereafter?

It ain't about money is it?
There's also a C option....train abroad and stay abroad....how long till we see a drop in CAO applications where students choose that option.
 

patslatt

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Why focus on nurses? the real need is for top class consultants who don't come cheap but who are not as media friendly.
EQUAL PAY

Equal pay for all salaried consultants makes it difficult to recruit the scarcest specialties but makes the overpaid ones happy in the communist style workers' co-op.
 

Analyzer

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The biggest problem with the HSE is the amount of substance abuse in Irish society.

But that is a taboo subject. With rampant lying, control, & deceit - there needs to be a safety valve that weakens opposition to authority instead of questioning it.
 

ger12

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Nursing isn't one of them. That's my point.
In out patients? In theatre? In the community? Etc ... There's a number of areas where nurses work Monday to Friday.
 

ger12

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INMO doesn't want to reveal the extent of high nurses' pay, for obvious pay bargaining reasons. The poor mouth is a good bargaining chip.
The INMO is publishing false pay scales?
 

patslatt

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Does that average pay you are quoting include all allowances, reasonable overtime and normal shift rates?
Who'd have thought it....the high pay of nurses is the reason why they cannot recruit and retain staff in ED. Now what's the reason across the entire hospital system?
Equal pay for all consultants on salary only. Ease of emigration for doctors. Stressful working conditions in A&E. Mediocre Irish management due to the excessive number of acute care hospitals at about 29.
 

patslatt

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Pat - why do you think that hospitals like OLOL have 100 unfilled vacancies across the entire hospital system if the pay is so attractive?
Read the opening post again! And drop the snobby acronyms for the sake of general readers.
 

damus

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INMO doesn't want to reveal the extent of high nurses' pay, for obvious pay bargaining reasons. The poor mouth is a good bargaining chip.
The links to the qualification and location allowances are to the right of the tab....and the information that's published are HSEA rates. Now if the pay is so high, why are hospitals experiencing difficulties recruiting and retaining staff across the entire hospital system.
 

A REASON

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I don't know if anyone has had similar experiences in hospitals but I've found a lot of the nursing staff to be quite slow and not very efficient. They stand around talking to eachother a lot. Maybe it's just in the hospitals I've had to visit.
Also the cleaning staff in hospitals are usually made up of foreign nationals. They are looked down upon by nurses and generally treated like dirt.
 

Civic_critic2

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There's also a C option....train abroad and stay abroad....how long till we see a drop in CAO applications where students choose that option.
There's a D option: consider yourself first and foremost a citizen with all that entails and organise to fight to transform first your working conditions and secondly the political and social structure of this country which since 1922 has been run in an abusive manner for the purpose of accommodating the wishes of a few agaist the rights of so many. In other words, take responsibility for transforming the country and attacking the forces which are ensuring that Ireland remains 'an old farrow devouring its young', in full cognisance of where those forces come from historically and currently. First item on the agenda, stop collaborating with the maintenance of appalling conditions in A&E.
 

patslatt

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You are a newly qualified nurse. You can do the following:

A) Be recruited internationally, travel abroad while young, work in a modern professional environment that is safe and secure, and that values you through continuous professional development, fixed working hours, supports and co workers who treat you with respect.

B) Be recruited by an FG government who don't value you enough to pay you appropriately, would rather patronise you by asking your parents to pressure you to come back instead of asking you with dignity, working in a dysfunctional system with dysfunctional hospital with not enough resources available to do your job, working next to free overtime heroically just to keep your patients alive, disrespected by the managerial team and the HSE in general with no professional supports, expected to pay your own costs in training, working in a dangerous environment where you are liable to be assaulted by drunks every weekend around.

Do you choose option A or B?

If you choose option A, would you ever change your mind to option B thereafter?

It ain't about money is it?
HIGH PAY STARVES SYSTEM
A lot of the above problems are due to excessive pay that starves the system of supports eg security staff, plentiful A&E staff
 


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