Paradoxically, high nursing pay causing shortages of nurses

Civic_critic2

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EQUAL PAY

Equal pay for all salaried consultants makes it difficult to recruit the scarcest specialties but makes the overpaid ones happy in the communist style workers' co-op.
Co-ops are the most rational economic organisation, especially in the modern era where we have so much knowledge and technology. Anything else is abusive, rigid, hierarchical nonsense and is increasingly seen to be obviously so.
 


patslatt

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Pat wants to only increase consultants pay in specialities where there's a shortage and the same with nurses. So you'll have a shortage in ortho's in Beaumont - we'll increase their pay.....which will lead to a shortage in Ortho's in Letterkenny....so we'll increase their pay and cut the pay in Beaumont. That's Pat's prescription in a nutshell.
Pay of consultants who are plentiful could be cut. If necessary, orthos could be recruited from abroad. Equal pay for all salaried consultants is a communist workers co-op concept.
 

damus

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Read the opening post again! And drop the snobby acronyms for the sake of general readers.
I did read it. Here's a synopsis of what you're saying....nurses are overpaid compared to our European counterparts. The high pay of nurses has undermined hospital budgets which in turn has resulted in difficulties in recruiting staff....according to you that is. And your answer to that is to cut the pay of nurses further in a system that is haemorrhaging staff left, right and centre cos of the friggin conditions. How many threads on this same topic is this - I've lost count!
 

ShinnerBot No.32564844524

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HIGH PAY STARVES SYSTEM
A lot of the above problems are due to excessive pay that starves the system of supports eg security staff, plentiful A&E staff
Seriously, you think the low paid peons on the floor are the pay problem?

H.S.E with all it's CS grades perks and expenses would easily dwarf the operation staff's cost, not to mention the ratio is something like 10 HSE staff to 1 medical worker in Ireland. Perspective....you need it.
 

patslatt

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The links to the qualification and location allowances are to the right of the tab....and the information that's published are HSEA rates. Now if the pay is so high, why are hospitals experiencing difficulties recruiting and retaining staff across the entire hospital system.
Read the OP again!
 

patslatt

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Seriously, you think the low paid peons on the floor are the pay problem?

H.S.E with all it's CS grades perks and expenses would easily dwarf the operation staff's cost, not to mention the ratio is something like 10 HSE staff to 1 medical worker in Ireland. Perspective....you need it.
Where did you get 10 to 1?

Logically, if peons are paid say 20% less, you can afford to hire 25% more of them.
 

patslatt

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Co-ops are the most rational economic organisation, especially in the modern era where we have so much knowledge and technology. Anything else is abusive, rigid, hierarchical nonsense and is increasingly seen to be obviously so.
Co-ops' position in the economy proves that!
 

damus

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Pay of consultants who are plentiful could be cut. If necessary, orthos could be recruited from abroad. Equal pay for all salaried consultants is a communist workers co-op concept.
Right so you're going to cut the pay of consultants in disciplines that are plentiful - increase the pay of consultants in disciplines where there's a shortage - and what happens when the shortage becomes plentiful again - do you cut them? If necessary - it is necessary - problem being where do you hire them from next - the word is out in India and Pakistan about how we treat doctors. You might want to rethink that one.
 

jas376

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Do all nurses make 55,000 a year? .
No they don't! Not by a long shot. Only those on the top of the salary scale make this kind of money. Average nurses' pay is around 33, 000 a year. Many nurses earn a lot less than that.
Don't believe a word that Patslatt writes. He is a dishonest person who peddles lies on here day after day. If there was proper moderation of this site he would have been banned a long time ago.
 

patslatt

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I did read it. Here's a synopsis of what you're saying....nurses are overpaid compared to our European counterparts. The high pay of nurses has undermined hospital budgets which in turn has resulted in difficulties in recruiting staff....according to you that is. And your answer to that is to cut the pay of nurses further in a system that is haemorrhaging staff left, right and centre cos of the friggin conditions. How many threads on this same topic is this - I've lost count!
You left out the possibility that pay cuts could be used to hire more A&E nurses, ending the chaotic stressfull conditions that caused recruitment shortages in the first place.
 

damus

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There's a D option: consider yourself first and foremost a citizen with all that entails and organise to fight to transform first your working conditions and secondly the political and social structure of this country which since 1922 has been run in an abusive manner for the purpose of accommodating the wishes of a few agaist the rights of so many. In other words, take responsibility for transforming the country and attacking the forces which are ensuring that Ireland remains 'an old farrow devouring its young', in full cognisance of where those forces come from historically and currently. First item on the agenda, stop collaborating with the maintenance of appalling conditions in A&E.
There's also a E and F option - set up a new union that acts in the best interests of nurses rather than the employers - and failing that, get the f&ck out of the job for your own sanity.
 

patslatt

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No they don't! Not by a long shot. Only those on the top of the salary scale make this kind of money. Average nurses' pay is around 33, 000 a year. Many nurses earn a lot less than that.
Don't believe a word that Patslatt writes. He is a dishonest person who peddles lies on here day after day. If there was proper moderation of this site he would have been banned a long time ago.
OECD figures put Irish nurses pay near the top in the EU and 40% higher than UK nurses on a $US ppp basis. Your accusation of lying is despicable and libelous. Of course, internet anonymity allows you to libel people with impunity but you wouldn't dare reveal your name.
 

ShinnerBot No.32564844524

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Where did you get 10 to 1?

Logically, if peons are paid say 20% less, you can afford to hire 25% more of them.
It's an IMO stat regularly thrown out, you can check the veracity of it yourself.

So what you're saying is that we hire 25% more security and cleaning staff to run the A+E? Genius!
 

damus

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You left out the possibility that pay cuts could be used to hire more A&E nurses, ending the chaotic stressfull conditions that caused recruitment shortages in the first place.
I am going to be a little blunt - I wouldn't work in ED for €100k - how about you Ger? You still don't get it - increasing pay levels will not help one iota deal with the chaotic stressful conditions in ED. The 30 patients officially recorded as being on trolleys in Beaumont today - will still be on trolleys in those samee chaotic, highly dangerous and cramped conditions.
 
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jas376

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OECD figures put Irish nurses pay near the top in the EU and 40% higher than UK nurses on a $US ppp basis. Your accusation of lying is despicable and libelous. Of course, internet anonymity allows you to libel people with impunity but you wouldn't dare reveal your name.
O K then, post up the OECD report on nurses' pay and any other reports that you think might support your claims and I will gladly withdraw my accusation. Until you do so, I stand by my assertion that you are a liar. I'm waiting!
 

Analyzer

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Nurses are cheaper than
- quango bosses
- bankers
- legal professionals living off the system
- tax non dom billionaires whose media oligarchy gets a debt writedown.

And unlike all the above who make society less healthy, nurses make us more healthy.
 

ger12

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I am going to be a little blunt - I wouldn't work in ED for €100k - how about you Ger? You still don't get it - increasing pay levels will not help one iota deal with the chaotic stressful conditions in ED. The 30 patients officially recorded as being on trolleys in Beaumont today - will still be on trolleys in those samee chaotic, highly dangerous and cramped conditions.
Not for all the tea in China. Life is way too short.
 

ger12

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Nurses are cheaper than
- quango bosses
- bankers
- legal professionals living off the system
- tax non dom billionaires whose media oligarchy gets a debt writedown.

And unlike all the above who make society less healthy, nurses make us more healthy.
Are you calling me cheap? :shock2:
 

ger12

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OECD figures put Irish nurses pay near the top in the EU and 40% higher than UK nurses on a $US ppp basis. Your accusation of lying is despicable and libelous. Of course, internet anonymity allows you to libel people with impunity but you wouldn't dare reveal your name.
Why have they gone in their droves to the UK if they're getting less pay? (Which they're not btw)
 


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