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Paradoxically, high nursing pay causing shortages of nurses

Patslatt1

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50 years ago hospitals had an in-house supply of slave labourers i.e. student nurses, 2 to 3 intakes per year, tied to the hospital for 4 years and doing the donkey work of cleaning, housekeeping and nursing.

The Health service never accepted that student nurses had become ‘supernumerary’ with the move to colleges and never adequately replaced the on floor nursing staff to pre degree levels.

The trolley crisis and huge waiting lists show that our health service can cope with emergency cases OR elective cases but not both... there are simply not enough beds for a growing population.

And soon we will be lacking GPs too thus dessimating the one part of the system that’s been working despite the ods against it - receiving just 4% of the budget despite treating 100% of the sick.
Who refers the sick to hospital?
Where do the hospital patients return to for after hospital care? - their GP.

Our health service has gone from a place of caring and learning to firefighting on a daily basis.

Is it too much to hope that the nurses strike - where nurses and patients were overwhelmingly of one voice, has given those in charge of running the system some pause for thought.
The real problems are political: 1. Vastly overpaid and overpensioned staff thanks to unions and professions 2. Workers co-op that tolerates restrictive practices in "trench warfare" negotiations according to the last HSE CEO. 3. An acute care hospital in every town fought for by local TDs 4. Arguably, an inability of the government and the HSE to efficiently manage a huge bureaucracy, unlike say France or the UK.
 


Patslatt1

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That poster that you mentioned have been telling pokies without FACT for long while as his leopard spots haven't changed one bit since.

Perhaps he needs to watch a movie called ' one flew over the cuckoo nest'.
NURSE O'RATCHET
The average wage figure was quoted by the minister of finance.
Incidentally, as for the Cuckoo's Nest,an acquaintance told me that electroshock therapy is commonly abused still to keep patients passive if overuse of calming drugs applied indiscriminately don't work. Nurse O'Ratchet is keeping down costs.
 
Last edited:

Patslatt1

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Could you live on €58k gross a year?
I know I couldn't.

This country rips people off at every opportunity, from the 23% VAT rate, to the outrageous taxes on fuel, to the miserable €36k allowed before hitting the higher tax rate.

The cost of living is driving wage inflation, rents are now 40% higher than they were during the FFailures tiger years...driven there by the blueshirts failure in housing and their scams like HAP etc etc...
Try a diet of sardines and cheap cuts of meat, a bicycle for transport, self entertainment instead of pubs-you will be healthier and wealthier!
Private sector workers find it harder than the public sector to afford the cost of living, so private sector workers should have priority in pay increases.
 

Patslatt1

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Some of us have to live on a fifth of that.
Nobody is forcing them to, they chose that career and knew the salary.
I couldnt work in the public sector as it puts a celing on earnings and fails to differentiate between the hard working and the lazy. I' d favour allowances for certain areas of nursing that have recruitment issues and are high risk situations.

The high cost of living here is driven to a certain extent by unsustainable salaries in the public sector. This starts with Leo and works all the way down. Professional service firms largely survive off fees from the public sector and MNC's.

Further increasing wages because of the high cost of living is absurd. Reduce taxation, utility bills, transport costs etc instead. All things govt can control
Until a right wing party like the PDs revives after the Irish voters tire of high taxes for inferior health care and housing supplies, little will change, probably for at least five years. A breakdown in health services down to rapid growth of the over 70 population could be a catalyst for radical change.
 

ruman

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Until a right wing party like the PDs revives after the Irish voters tire of high taxes for inferior health care and housing supplies, little will change, probably for at least five years. A breakdown in health services down to rapid growth of the over 70 population could be a catalyst for radical change.
Problem with the PD's was while they cut taxes they failed to cut spending. 2011 was a wonderful opportunity for radical reform which was squandered by the 4million man Howlin. Unlikely we'll ever get as good an opportunity again. Realistically best we can hope for is a pan european health service administered by the germans. Failing that privatise the lot.

First world salaries 4 third world services
 

Patslatt1

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Problem with the PD's was while they cut taxes they failed to cut spending. 2011 was a wonderful opportunity for radical reform which was squandered by the 4million man Howlin. Unlikely we'll ever get as good an opportunity again. Realistically best we can hope for is a pan european health service administered by the germans. Failing that privatise the lot.

First world salaries 4 third world services
PD Nua might learn from past spending mistakes!
 

Fr. Ted Crilly

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€30 million a year for 40,000 nurses.

€50 million a year for 12,000 coppers who threatened an illegal strike.


Do the nurses also get the rent allowance coppers get?
 

ruman

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€30 million a year for 40,000 nurses.

€50 million a year for 12,000 coppers who threatened an illegal strike.


Do the nurses also get the rent allowance coppers get?
The usually meet in coppers and end up renting properties out together anyway
 

Cdebru

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Cdebru

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Overtime is easily triggered and management and admin nursing pay raise the average to about 57,000, a figure quoted by the minister of finance.
Overtime is not your salary, compare salaries you compare apples with apples , compare a standard 39 hour week vs a 39 hour week, if you work 39 hours a week don't compare the total pay of someone doing 55 or 60 hours a week and complain they get more than you. Also dept of finance lie through their teeth so for example give total cost of employment rather than actually salary so include employers PRSI etc, include cost of agency nurses etc, overtime .
it is standard practise for them, and then it is all averages, if they want to be open and transparent, give the full breakdown, how many are on each point of the scale.
 

Patslatt1

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Overtime is not your salary, compare salaries you compare apples with apples , compare a standard 39 hour week vs a 39 hour week, if you work 39 hours a week don't compare the total pay of someone doing 55 or 60 hours a week and complain they get more than you. Also dept of finance lie through their teeth so for example give total cost of employment rather than actually salary so include employers PRSI etc, include cost of agency nurses etc, overtime .
it is standard practise for them, and then it is all averages, if they want to be open and transparent, give the full breakdown, how many are on each point of the scale.
Nurses get overtime without working more than regular hours in a week, with shifts set up to generate overtime and there is a variety of extra allowances. The average figure is key, around 57,000 a year. Deviations around the average may or may not be large but in the highly stuctured public sector pay system over a career inequalities in pay are considerably reduced, unlike unstable private sector jobs.
 

Patslatt1

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Overtime is not your salary, compare salaries you compare apples with apples , compare a standard 39 hour week vs a 39 hour week, if you work 39 hours a week don't compare the total pay of someone doing 55 or 60 hours a week and complain they get more than you. Also dept of finance lie through their teeth so for example give total cost of employment rather than actually salary so include employers PRSI etc, include cost of agency nurses etc, overtime .
it is standard practise for them, and then it is all averages, if they want to be open and transparent, give the full breakdown, how many are on each point of the scale.
There wouldn't be such a big need for agency nurses but for the nurses union ban until a few years ago on nurses helpers and the continuing ban on the associate grade of nurses with practical apprenticeship training. Why isn't there a row over this from the workers co-op managements of hospitals? Hint:the so called manager are also unionised.

As for the average pay figure, the government figure wasn't challenged by the nurses union. Overtime is rigged to be very easily obtained.
 


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