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Paramilitaries on O'Connell Street

LISTOWEL MAN

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the reason Bobby Sands is so respected decades later is because he made both sides happy

SF IRA - he died for us he's a hero, Tiocfaidh ár lá

Brits - he starved himself to death for murderers and cowards, Good riddance
 


Hillmanhunter1

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What do you imagine you are asking - and what has that to do with the charlatan Defence Forces who make a mockery of 1916 by reading the proclamation of the 32 county Irish Republic (they destroyed) every year since the GFA?

The traitors never read it during the troubles - in fact they used to ban Irish Patriots from reading the 1916 Proclamation outside the GPO.

Poor Free State trolls - living the lie.
What I have asked is a very simple question, Who is the president of your imaginary republic?
 

Antóin Mac Comháin

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There is only one Government of Ireland, and only one army Oglaigh na hEireann: Home
Irish Volunteers

- The Manifesto of the Irish Volunteers was composed by MacNeill, with some minimal changes added by Tom Kettle and other members of the Provisional Committee. It stated that the organisation's objectives were "to secure and maintain the rights and liberties common to the whole people of Ireland", and that membership was open to all Irishmen "without distinction of creed, politics or social grade."

- The manifesto further stated that their duties were to be defensive, contemplating neither "aggression or domination".

- The official stance of the Irish Volunteers was that action would only be taken were the British authorities at Dublin Castle to attempt to disarm the Volunteers, arrest their leaders, or introduce conscription to Ireland. The IRB, however, was determined to use the Volunteers for offensive action while Britain was tied up in the First World War.

Rival political theories

The assembly was:

- the Third Dáil, the successor of the First Dáil (1919–1921) and the Second Dáil (1921–1922) according to Irish political theory; and

- the Provisional Parliament, the successor of the House of Commons of Southern Ireland (1921–1922) according to British political theory.

Crown assembly or Republican Dáil?

Whether the new house, the Third Dáil/Provisional Parliament, was a republican parliament or crown assembly became an issue for some anti-Treaty Irish republicans. Laurence Ginnell turned up in the assembly to demand an answer as to which category, crown or republic, it belonged. On 9 September 1922, the first day of the Third Dáil in session, the Ceann Comhairle read a message from Lord Lieutenant of Ireland Lord FitzAlan "conveying to this Parliament his very best wishes", which suggests that both the Lord Lieutenant and the Ceann Comhairle were content to consider this body one convened under the terms of the Treaty rather than Dáil of the Irish Republic.

Parliament of Southern Ireland - 'Starting in September 1919, with the Government, now led by David Lloyd George, committed under all circumstances to implementing Home Rule, the British cabinet's Committee for Ireland, under the chairmanship of former Ulster Unionist Party leader Walter Long, pushed for a radical new idea. Long proposed the creation of two Irish home rule entities, Northern Ireland and Southern Ireland, each with unicameral parliaments. An amendment to the bill in the House of Lords submitted by Geoffrey Browne, 3rd Baron Oranmore and Browne added a Senate for Southern Ireland, intended to bolster representation of the southern Unionist and Protestant minorities. The government opposed this on the grounds that it would weaken the function of the inter-parliament Council of Ireland, but it was passed, as was an amendment adding a Senate of Northern Ireland.'

1921 Election - 'Since 1919, those elected for Sinn Féin at the 1918 general election had abstained from the House of Commons and established Dáil Éireann as a parliament of a self-declared Irish Republic, with members calling themselves Teachtaí Dála or TDs. In December 1920, in the middle of the Irish War of Independence, the British Government passed the Government of Ireland Act, which enacted partition by establishing two home rule parliaments in separate parts of Ireland. These provisions arose out of discussions held at the Irish Convention held in 1917, which Sinn Féin had abstained from. In May 1921, the first elections were held to the House of Commons of Northern Ireland and the House of Commons of Southern Ireland elected by means of the single transferable vote. On 10 May 1921, the Dáil passed a resolution that the elections scheduled to take place later in the month in both parts of the country would be "regarded as elections to Dáil Éireann".'

In the elections for Southern Ireland, all seats were uncontested, with Sinn Féin winning 124 of the 128 seats, and Independent Unionists winning the four seats representing the University of Dublin. In the election for Northern Ireland, the Ulster Unionist Party won 40 of the 52 seats, with Sinn Féin and the Nationalist Party winning 6 seats each. Of the six seats won by Sinn Féin in Northern Ireland, five were held by people who had also won seats in Southern Ireland; therefore when the Second Dáil met, there were 125 Sinn Féin TDs.

'The Second Dáil responded favourably to the proposal from George V on 22 June 1921 for a Truce, which became effective from noon on 11 July 1921. This was upheld by nearly all of the combatants while the months-long process of arranging a treaty got under way. The Truce allowed the Dáil to meet openly without fear of arrest for the first time since September 1919, when it had been banned and driven underground.'

There is no 32 county republic, there never was..
'A central point of contestation between the “Provisional” and “dissident” worlds is the raison d’être for the Provisional IRA campaign. Danny Morrison, former director of publicity for Sinn Féin has stated: “To me our mandate was the sense of oppression, physically, that we lived under, the conditions that we lived under, and they – and they alone – justified armed struggle and that was our position. Not this other theological position which a lot of the older people were burdened with”.'

Was the proposal for a Truce made by George V in June, 1921, made to two separate entities, or a single entity?

The Manifesto of the Volunteers was drawn up for the whole of Ireland, and at that time, Óglaigh na hÉireann, was primarily an anti-conscription movement, which is closer ideologically to the Peace & Neutrality Alliance, than to any political party or organization. Now, before you go telling me they are a different group, remember the original claim you made about the one true Óglaigh na hÉireann, and bare in mind while you are doing so that the Irish Republican Brotherhood dissolved in 1924.
 

Antóin Mac Comháin

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He's not a lone crank. There are at least 5 people still in RSF.
They think the whole country thinks or shoukd think like them.
Whatever they think only matters at the ballot box, and the really scary part is that more than half of the country didn't vote in the recent elections, and thus, the idealists will see the new dawn as a place only half as far away now, having mobolized and inspired the masses to abstain from voting. I think the difference between Saoradh and RSF is that the former don't stand in local elections, whereas they are both abstentionist parties insofar as partitionist assemblies are concerned, as are Éirígí and the Irish Republican Socialist Party, for all intents and purposes, so the best place to gauge support for the Republican Movement is through its performance at local level, and the grim prospects of all of the aforementioned need to be seen side-by-side with the unraveling of Sinn Féin at the recent local elections, when they lost half of their seats. Morrison's comments in the previous post need to be seen in light of the position he held as a director-of-publicity for SF, and what is in effect his dismissal of the Republican heart of the Sinn Féin Constitution as a 'separate, distinct and unique entity', which he defines as some 'other theological position which a lot of the older people were burdened with.'
 

Beachcomber

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the reason Bobby Sands is so respected decades later is because he made both sides happy

SF IRA - he died for us he's a hero, Tiocfaidh ár lá

Brits - he starved himself to death for murderers and cowards, Good riddance

Poor old skinny Booby.
 

Beachcomber

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Here moron - academia agree with me. You are coming across as quite thick and childish.

The true successors to the men and women of 1916 who proclaimed Ireland a Republic are OBVIOUSLY the Irish Republican Army/Óglaigh na hÉireann - NOT the renegade Free State army (deserts and betrays an organization, country, or set of principles) that are now called the Defence Forces, who destroyed the proclaimed 1916 32 county Irish Republic on behalf of, and with the help of, our enemy England during 1922/23.

Only an imbecile such as yourself with what seems an IQ in the low double-digits would even attempt to suggest otherwise.

What's obvious about it?

Some of the men and women of 1916 ended up in the National Army, so who are you to claim that they weren't the successors to the 1916 people? You weren't around then.
 

Beachcomber

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Yep - the Commander in Chief of the renegade Free State army (deserts and betrays an organization, country, or set of principles) that are now called the Defence Forces was the King of England.

A constitutional role vested in the enemy British monarch because the usurper Free State was set up as a British dominion.

All Officer Commissions given to the renegade Free State army (deserts and betrays an organization, country, or set of principles) by England's Governor of the usurper Free State were vested in the enemy British monarch.

Not only were half the renegade Free State army (deserts and betrays an organization, country, or set of principles) riddled with ex British army men - the British army were directly transferring British soldiers into specialist positions in the renegade Free State army.

The renegade Free State army (deserts and betrays an organization, country, or set of principles) that are now called the Defence Forces were Crown Forces and set up under the terms of the treaty as England's local Defence Forces in Ireland.

Shocking stuff - but he only people the renegade Free State army (deserts and betrays an organization, country, or set of principles) that are now called the Defence Forces fought against in Ireland, were the Irish Republican Army/Óglaigh na hÉireann - the army of the Irish Republic as proclaimed in 1916.

Obviously, the renegade Free State army (deserts and betrays an organization, country, or set of principles) that are now called the Defence Forces, are clearly not the successors to the men and women of 1916 who proclaimed Ireland a Republic - the factual and actual successors to the men and women of 1916 are the Irish Republican Army/Óglaigh na hÉireann.

Never mind your idiotic views -the National Army beat the anti-Treaty IRA scum.
 

Beachcomber

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Yep - the Irish Republican Army were the lawful and legitimate army of the 32 county Irish Republic. They took an Oath of Allegiance (as did Dáil Éireann) to the Irish Republic.

The oath to the Irish Republic:- “ I, A.B., do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I do not and shall not yield a voluntary support to any pretended Government ('Southern Ireland' provisional government), authority or power within Ireland hostile and inimical thereto, and I do further swear (or affirm) that to the best of my knowledge and ability I will support and defend the Irish Republic and the Government of the Irish Republic, which is Dáil Eireann, against all enemies, foreign (British army) and domestic (Free State army), and I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same, and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion, so help me, God.”

View attachment 18526

They could have taken an oath to the Easter Bunny for all that it matters.

The 32 county Irish Republic doesn't exist.
 

Beachcomber

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What do you imagine you are asking - and what has that to do with the charlatan Defence Forces who make a mockery of 1916 by reading the proclamation of the 32 county Irish Republic (they destroyed) every year since the GFA?

The traitors never read it during the troubles - in fact they used to ban Irish Patriots from reading the 1916 Proclamation outside the GPO.

Poor Free State trolls - living the lie.

You can see what he is asking - if the Irish Republic is still about, who is the current president of it?

BTW
You always run way from this question, but what passport do you use? Is it one provided by the 26 county Republic Of Ireland, the state that you claim is not legitimate?

That makes you a renegade (deserts and betrays an organization, country, or set of principles).

You sir are a traitor.
 

Beachcomber

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Whatever they think only matters at the ballot box, and the really scary part is that more than half of the country didn't vote in the recent elections, and thus, the idealists will see the new dawn as a place only half as far away now, having mobolized and inspired the masses to abstain from voting. I think the difference between Saoradh and RSF is that the former don't stand in local elections, whereas they are both abstentionist parties insofar as partitionist assemblies are concerned, as are Éirígí and the Irish Republican Socialist Party, for all intents and purposes, so the best place to gauge support for the Republican Movement is through its performance at local level, and the grim prospects of all of the aforementioned need to be seen side-by-side with the unraveling of Sinn Féin at the recent local elections, when they lost half of their seats. Morrison's comments in the previous post need to be seen in light of the position he held as a director-of-publicity for SF, and what is in effect his dismissal of the Republican heart of the Sinn Féin Constitution as a 'separate, distinct and unique entity', which he defines as some 'other theological position which a lot of the older people were burdened with.'

The really sad thing would be if they actually believed this.

The people of the ROI are getting to be like people in other western democracies - increasingly disinterested in boring politics.

That's why they don't vote - not because looney Irish Republicans have convinced them of anything.
 

Beachcomber

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Yep - the Irish Republican Army were the lawful and legitimate army of the 32 county Irish Republic. They took an Oath of Allegiance (as did Dáil Éireann) to the Irish Republic.

The oath to the Irish Republic:- “ I, A.B., do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I do not and shall not yield a voluntary support to any pretended Government ('Southern Ireland' provisional government), authority or power within Ireland hostile and inimical thereto, and I do further swear (or affirm) that to the best of my knowledge and ability I will support and defend the Irish Republic and the Government of the Irish Republic, which is Dáil Eireann, against all enemies, foreign (British army) and domestic (Free State army), and I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same, and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion, so help me, God.”

View attachment 18526

Which is the real oath?

The wordings are different.

Did you make one of them up?

Is this more of your usual fakery?
 

Antóin Mac Comháin

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The really sad thing would be if they actually believed this.

The people of the ROI are getting to be like people in other western democracies - increasingly disinterested in boring politics.

That's why they don't vote - not because looney Irish Republicans have convinced them of anything.
Well, I don't know why the majority of people didn't vote, and I'm not suggesting it has anything got to do with direction from any Irish Republican group. I'm quite content in the knowledge that's it's not. However, the claim was that..

They think the whole country thinks or should think like them..
And in that respect, there's a very thin-line between the Republican policy of abstentionism and 'not voting', and by extension, there's not exactly an ocean of difference between them..
 

Antóin Mac Comháin

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An Oral History of Dublin Tenement Life - Kevin Kearns..

'Oh I remember the Black & Tans. We were born under the British regime and it was kind of accepted as a way of life. They would come in with a kind of black uniform and those tam o'shanters down sideways on their head..oh, and 'anything would do them' sort of thing. They'd come in and see poor kids and ask them if there were any guns there... They were not the IRA then they were called Rebels, which is a nicer word. We didn't hate the British then, isn't that funny? Cause we should have hated them. We were so used to the British soldiers on our streets it was nothing to us. It was just an army of occupation. When I got older... now I hate them now.

May Hanaphy - Age 85 Golden Lane

'The old days, they were poverty stricken. Everyone was living in poverty. We were only kids then but the Black & Tans I remember them. People hated them. The Tans was all a gang of criminals, all gangsters out of the prisons. All riff-raff out of the prisons. Always ten and twelve of them together in armoured cars. You couldn't get out in the night cause they'd come along a give you a hiding. They were tough with the gun but if you met in a fair fight they wouldn't be tough. Not at all! They used to run through the place at night-time and break peoples windows and all. That's what they called fun. What could we do? If you went out they'd shoot you. Do what they liked. They'd steal anything. Go out on drunken orgies. They'd go in kip houses and rob them if they got the chance of any money. Oh yes, they were all a gang of bástárds. There was a picture house around there called the 'Lec' and on a friday evening these two chaps-they were just 17 or 18 - was coming out of it and the Black & Tans come up and took them away. The next morning they were found in Drumcondra with a bucket over their heads and about fifty bullets in them. The Black & Tans killed them for doing nothing. All they had was a Kevin Barry song in their pocket. They were a gang of murdering bástárds the Black & Tans. I remember the Rising well.. These IRA chaps, they all run down this way and some of them got wounded. A chap with a horse and car brought four of them up to the Mater Hospital. The IRA was the best men we had at the time. The Tans used to around in the tenders with a wire over the top and if it was going by up there in Talbot Street they'd say Quick, Get out of the way, and throw a hand grenade into the car.'

Billy Dunleavy - Age 86 Foley Street

'I remember the Black & Tans all standing round the corners with their guns. There was shooting and the bullets used to come in and me mother had a few miscarriages over the shooting. There was holes in the walls, you should have seen it'.

Maggie Murray - Age 80 Queens Terrace

'I was born in Gloucester Street in 1913, the year of the big strike on the quays. Terrible strike. My father worked in the docks. He was from Ringsend, very clanny. My father died when I was nine, and my mother two years later.. I remember the Rising and the Tans.. I'd a brother who was knocking off choclate, and another brother who was knocking of whiskey'

Mary Waldron - Age 80 Gloucester Street.

I think the most fascinating thing is that even in old age, the hatred of the British still remained. It never left them. It was as if they'd inflicted a type of psychological warfare on them and the scars never left. The physical scars had gone, but the mental scars remained. As one woman remarked, it was only when she grew older that she came to hate them. Oh.. I hate them now..
Deaths, Superstitions & Wakes Dublin Tenement Life - K.C. Kerins

Mary Waldron:

'Oh, I heard the banshee..oh, God. I was living in Cumberland Street. Now I always heard cats crying and dogs howling and this was different. It went through you, it really did. And you got cold. It was really shocking.. I'm telling you, if you heard it you wouldn't like to hear it again.. It was unmerciful'

The people of the Tenements were, in short, so poverty stricken that they created a figure for Death through the Banshee.. Death was around every corner.. Sibhse Éire, Sine sibh ná an Chailleach Bhéarra..
Their mother used to throw dumplings into the stew when she was feeding us, to thicken it up, and that's an old habit which she picked up from her grand-mother, when they couldn't afford meat.
Dublin Tenements

These were the homes of those who pushed aside
The broken children of a sweeter race
These are the cast-off garments of their pride
Because of whom a thousand heroes died:
Alien and sinister, these hold their place

The light has died upon the pavements grey
From shattered window and from blackened door
Where, in a sunny, heartless yesterday
Silken and jewelled beauty was at play
Stare out the hopeless faces of the poor

Oh, dark inheritors, who hither came
The flotsam of that splendid brazen sea
For taint on this your heirship ours the blame
The shame that clouds your beauty is our shame
On us and on our children it shall be

Susan Mitchell
 
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Antóin Mac Comháin

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Revisiting an Irish Classic - 'Insurrection' by Liam O'Flaherty

Jenny Farrell

'The following review was kindly submitted to Galway Decade of Commemoration by Jenny Farrell of the Liam and Tom O’Flaherty Society. This recently-founded literary society is dedicated to re-publishing and making better known to a new generation the writings of Inis Mór authors Liam and his brother Tom O’Flaherty. More information on the Liam and Tom O’Flaherty Society can be accessed on the society’s Facebook page here.

"After half a century of bloody violence and war in Europe, O’Flaherty makes a statement on the difference between imperialist and anti-imperialist war and creates a monument for the ordinary people who understood the difference"

‘It was noon on Easter Monday 1916 in the city of Dublin’ is the opening sentence of Liam O’Flaherty’s Easter 1916 novel Insurrection. Although written over thirty years later, O’Flaherty gives the reader a sense of eye witnessing the events of those five days of Insurrection, largely from the view point of Connemara man, Bartley Madden. Madden, who has returned to Dublin from working in an English war factory, is sucked into events of which he has no prior knowledge.

O’Flaherty, in the opening pages of the book, draws a complex picture of Dublin at the time. O’Connell Street is the melting pot for insurgents marching to the GPO, impoverished slum dwellers and former soldiers of the imperial army, and country folk arriving for a day out at the Fairyhouse Easter races. From this motley crowd O’Flaherty creates a tale, in which they all have a role to play.

The main character, however, is Madden and the people he is direct contact with during the Rising he is drawn into, despite initial reluctance. What captivates Madden is the sense of purpose he perceives in the leaders of the Rising. His first impression of these is when they emerge from the General Post Office and Patrick Pearse reads out the Proclamation. O’Flaherty quotes directly from this, as Pearse reads, and intersperses it with the effect the words have on Madden: ‘He heard his mother’s crooning voice and felt the cool touch of her hand on his sick forehead, while the roar of the distant sea came through the moonlit window of his room … He heard the creaking of ropes through their blocks and the great rustle of unfurling canvas as the hookers hoisted sail going down Kilkerrin Bay.’ This deep association of what Madden calls the Idea, with childhood and his native place, native people and nature, recurs throughout the novel. It is this that convinces Madden of the rightness of what he is engaging with.

O’Flaherty chooses to give the reader largely the perspective and experience of the ordinary man and woman. It is Mrs Colgan, charwoman and tenement dweller, who involves Madden in the Rising. She is unwavering in her determination and efforts to support the rebels. Like Madden, her motivation is mainly an emotional understanding of the Rising as an opportunity to fight the oppressor. She is informed on by her neighbours, but reacts with surprise rather than hatred.'
 
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Antóin Mac Comháin

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An extract from Bobby Sands Hunger Strike diary:

'I was trying to piece together a quote from James Connolly today which I’m ashamed that I did not succeed in doing but I’ll paraphrase the meagre few lines I can remember.

They go something like this: a man who is bubbling over with enthusiasm (or patriotism) for his country, who walks through the streets among his people, their degradation, poverty, and suffering, and who (for want of the right words) does nothing, is, in my mind, a fraud; for Ireland distinct from its people is but a mass of chemical elements.

Perhaps the stark poverty of Dublin in 1913 does not exist today, but then again, in modern day comparison to living standards in other places through the world, it could indeed be said to be the same if not worse both North and South. Indeed, one thing has not changed, that is the economic, cultural and physical oppression of the same Irish people…

Even should there not be 100,000 unemployed in the North, their pittance of a wage would look shame in the company of those whose wage and profit is enormous, the privileged and capitalist class who sleep upon the people’s wounds, and sweat, and toils.

Total equality and fraternity cannot and never will be gained whilst these parasites dominate and rule the lives of a nation. There is no equality in a society that stands upon the economic and political bog if only the strongest make it good or survive. Compare the lives, comforts, habits, wealth of all those political conmen (who allegedly are concerned for us, the people) with that of the wretchedly deprived and oppressed.

Compare it in any decade in history, compare it tomorrow, in the future, and it will mock you. Yet our perennial blindness continues. There are no luxuries in the H-Blocks. But there is true concern for the Irish people.' - Prison Diary | Bobby Sands Trust

This deep association of what Madden calls the Idea, with childhood and his native place, native people and nature, recurs throughout the novel. It is this that convinces Madden of the rightness of what he is engaging with.

O’Flaherty chooses to give the reader largely the perspective and experience of the ordinary man and woman. It is Mrs Colgan, charwoman and tenement dweller, who involves Madden in the Rising. She is unwavering in her determination and efforts to support the rebels. Like Madden, her motivation is mainly an emotional understanding of the Rising as an opportunity to fight the oppressor.
the reason Bobby Sands is so respected decades later..
Because 'Idea.'
 

Antóin Mac Comháin

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You claim academia agree that the DF are an illegitimate organization.

Yet you cannot provide a link to a single academic supporting the claim.

You are coming across as very thick.
No. He claimed that academia supported his claims, and s/he knows you can't refute those claims. It doesn't mean academia agrees with them, nor does it make 'the DF an illegitimate organization.' No academic would support the claim that the IDF are a continuum from 1916 or the National Volunteers, and Óglaigh na hÉireann in that guise started life as an anti-conscription movement. TB may be somewhat tedious, but that doesn't mean s/he's thick. I remember a poster said to me one day that 'your lads shot Seán Hales.' Outsiders are probably none the wiser that he was killed nearly 100 years ago. They're the ones you need to keep your eye on..
 

Hillmanhunter1

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Irish Volunteers

- The Manifesto of the Irish Volunteers was composed by MacNeill, with some minimal changes added by Tom Kettle and other members of the Provisional Committee. It stated that the organisation's objectives were "to secure and maintain the rights and liberties common to the whole people of Ireland", and that membership was open to all Irishmen "without distinction of creed, politics or social grade."

- The manifesto further stated that their duties were to be defensive, contemplating neither "aggression or domination".

- The official stance of the Irish Volunteers was that action would only be taken were the British authorities at Dublin Castle to attempt to disarm the Volunteers, arrest their leaders, or introduce conscription to Ireland. The IRB, however, was determined to use the Volunteers for offensive action while Britain was tied up in the First World War.

Rival political theories

The assembly was:

- the Third Dáil, the successor of the First Dáil (1919–1921) and the Second Dáil (1921–1922) according to Irish political theory; and

- the Provisional Parliament, the successor of the House of Commons of Southern Ireland (1921–1922) according to British political theory.

Crown assembly or Republican Dáil?

Whether the new house, the Third Dáil/Provisional Parliament, was a republican parliament or crown assembly became an issue for some anti-Treaty Irish republicans. Laurence Ginnell turned up in the assembly to demand an answer as to which category, crown or republic, it belonged. On 9 September 1922, the first day of the Third Dáil in session, the Ceann Comhairle read a message from Lord Lieutenant of Ireland Lord FitzAlan "conveying to this Parliament his very best wishes", which suggests that both the Lord Lieutenant and the Ceann Comhairle were content to consider this body one convened under the terms of the Treaty rather than Dáil of the Irish Republic.

Parliament of Southern Ireland - 'Starting in September 1919, with the Government, now led by David Lloyd George, committed under all circumstances to implementing Home Rule, the British cabinet's Committee for Ireland, under the chairmanship of former Ulster Unionist Party leader Walter Long, pushed for a radical new idea. Long proposed the creation of two Irish home rule entities, Northern Ireland and Southern Ireland, each with unicameral parliaments. An amendment to the bill in the House of Lords submitted by Geoffrey Browne, 3rd Baron Oranmore and Browne added a Senate for Southern Ireland, intended to bolster representation of the southern Unionist and Protestant minorities. The government opposed this on the grounds that it would weaken the function of the inter-parliament Council of Ireland, but it was passed, as was an amendment adding a Senate of Northern Ireland.'

1921 Election - 'Since 1919, those elected for Sinn Féin at the 1918 general election had abstained from the House of Commons and established Dáil Éireann as a parliament of a self-declared Irish Republic, with members calling themselves Teachtaí Dála or TDs. In December 1920, in the middle of the Irish War of Independence, the British Government passed the Government of Ireland Act, which enacted partition by establishing two home rule parliaments in separate parts of Ireland. These provisions arose out of discussions held at the Irish Convention held in 1917, which Sinn Féin had abstained from. In May 1921, the first elections were held to the House of Commons of Northern Ireland and the House of Commons of Southern Ireland elected by means of the single transferable vote. On 10 May 1921, the Dáil passed a resolution that the elections scheduled to take place later in the month in both parts of the country would be "regarded as elections to Dáil Éireann".'

In the elections for Southern Ireland, all seats were uncontested, with Sinn Féin winning 124 of the 128 seats, and Independent Unionists winning the four seats representing the University of Dublin. In the election for Northern Ireland, the Ulster Unionist Party won 40 of the 52 seats, with Sinn Féin and the Nationalist Party winning 6 seats each. Of the six seats won by Sinn Féin in Northern Ireland, five were held by people who had also won seats in Southern Ireland; therefore when the Second Dáil met, there were 125 Sinn Féin TDs.

'The Second Dáil responded favourably to the proposal from George V on 22 June 1921 for a Truce, which became effective from noon on 11 July 1921. This was upheld by nearly all of the combatants while the months-long process of arranging a treaty got under way. The Truce allowed the Dáil to meet openly without fear of arrest for the first time since September 1919, when it had been banned and driven underground.'



'A central point of contestation between the “Provisional” and “dissident” worlds is the raison d’être for the Provisional IRA campaign. Danny Morrison, former director of publicity for Sinn Féin has stated: “To me our mandate was the sense of oppression, physically, that we lived under, the conditions that we lived under, and they – and they alone – justified armed struggle and that was our position. Not this other theological position which a lot of the older people were burdened with”.'

Was the proposal for a Truce made by George V in June, 1921, made to two separate entities, or a single entity?

The Manifesto of the Volunteers was drawn up for the whole of Ireland, and at that time, Óglaigh na hÉireann, was primarily an anti-conscription movement, which is closer ideologically to the Peace & Neutrality Alliance, than to any political party or organization. Now, before you go telling me they are a different group, remember the original claim you made about the one true Óglaigh na hÉireann, and bare in mind while you are doing so that the Irish Republican Brotherhood dissolved in 1924.
Jesus wept!
 

the secretary

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No. He claimed that academia supported his claims, and s/he knows you can't refute those claims. It doesn't mean academia agrees with them, nor does it make 'the DF an illegitimate organization.' No academic would support the claim that the IDF are a continuum from 1916 or the National Volunteers, and Óglaigh na hÉireann in that guise started life as an anti-conscription movement. TB may be somewhat tedious, but that doesn't mean s/he's thick. I remember a poster said to me one day that 'your lads shot Seán Hales.' Outsiders are probably none the wiser that he was killed nearly 100 years ago. They're the ones you need to keep your eye on..
You need a good pass time.
Way too much time on your hands.
Kayaking is great. You get lots and lots of exercise and get to see the landscape from a different angle. It districts the mind too.
 


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