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Parties Youth Sections


DJP

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
12,475
I have to say that the calibre of lot all the parties youth members is worse than poor. They'd give a dog a bad name. I think that TD's and councillors and other party rep's. should sit down with a lot of their youth members and, if they are poor, start the process of encouraging them (because you can't just ask them to leave of course if they have done nothing wrong policy wise) to leave the parties. A lot of the parties youth members are only supporting their parties in a careerist way.

I am thinking, in particular, of Ógra Fianna Fáil and Young Fine Gael. Because Labour don't have a big (politically speaking, in an Irish context) youth section as do not Sinn Féin etc. I believe.

I am not trying to encourage good young party members to leave their parties merely, at least, accept that they have a problem and maybe, if possible, go about addressing it.

Chiefly, though, I want elected public representatives to "get" that most people don't "get" the same people. In the real world.*

* I know this is going to infuriate many posters on this site and I don't hold a great deal of hope in the capabilities of most of the young party members to understand me so it would be good at least if their public representatives got what I am talking about.

I admire many politicians in Ireland. However a lot of the parties youth members (the youngest of them can be understood of course) would help turn people like me interested in politics apolitical.

I will personally speaking continue to be interested in politics but the calibre of some politicians and many of their members is something that contributes to the disillusionment of politics. Whether you believe that there are a disproportionately higher number of poor calibre youth members in YFG and OFF in particular in comparison to the number of their poor calibre older members is something for each individual to decide.

I have let you know what I think, on this.

I would love to be proved wrong.
 
Last edited:


ruserious

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2011
Messages
29,619
Never ever trust a college politician. Bunch of twats.
 

Kev408

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 26, 2006
Messages
5,123
Sinn Fein's youth movement is one the largest in Ireland.
 

RahenyFG

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Messages
9,206
I have to say that the calibre of lot all the parties' youth members is worse than poor. They'd give a dog a bad name. I think that TD's and councillors and other party rep's. should sit down with a lot of their youth members and, if they are poor, start the process of encouraging them (because you can't just ask them to leave of course if they have done nothing wrong policy wise) to leave the parties. A lot of the parties' youth members are only supporting their parties in a careerist way.

I am thinking, in particular, of Ógra Fianna Fáil and Young Fine Gael. Because Labour don't have a big (politically speaking, in an Irish context) youth section as do not Sinn Féin etc. I believe.

I am not trying to encourage good young party members to leave their parties merely, at least, accept that they have a problem and maybe, if possible, go about addressing it.

Chiefly, though, I want elected public representatives to "get" that most people don't "get" the same people. In the real world.*

* I know this is going to infuriate many posters on this site and I don't hold a great deal of hope in the capabilities of most of the young party members to understand me so it would be good at least if their public representatives got what I am talking about.

I admire many politicians in Ireland. However a lot of the parties youth members (the youngest of them can be understood of course) would help turn people like me interested in politics apolitical.

I will personally speaking continue to be interested in politics but the calibre of some politicians and many of their members is something that contributes to the disillusionment of politics. Whether you believe that there are a disproportionately higher number of poor calibre youth members in YFG and OFF in particular in comparison to the number of their poor calibre older members is something for each individual to decide.

I have let you know what I think, on this.

I would love to be proved wrong.

D
Not entirely sure what message you're trying to get across Darren. Some people do get a bad impression of parties by their TDs or maybe a rude canvasser but why must you target young party members? Did a young party member do something bad to you personally?

The calibre of the youth organisations in Ireland is actually high class. The debates held in various colleges are good to watch. Young Fine Gael have a very good organisation and are providing a good feeding ground for the senior party with the likes of Varadkar and Creighton. Ogra FF have had some very good people too come into the senior party and I know some of their current members and they aren't that bad. Ogra SF I've seen personally up close as I had a friend who was heavily involved with them and they are a very well organised bunch. They get huge numbers together for marches, trips and party related gatherings. They have quite a lot of socials which Young FG doesn't. Can't speak for Young Labour as I know nothing about them.

So there is hope for the young members of political parties Darren and they are our future. Dismiss them at your peril.
 

Concerned Irishman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 27, 2009
Messages
1,307
I know some Labour Youth members - seem to spend a lot of time fighting with their Senior Party, but they are generally a fairly well informed and well intentioned group (compared to most Labour Party members that is!)

Google the so-called "Campaign for Labour Policies" - that seems to be a mostly LY-based operation so far as I can tell.
 

Tea Party Patriot

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 31, 2010
Messages
11,557
Never ever trust a college politician. Bunch of twats.
Bunch of numpties.
I agree with both of you, but the unfortunate reality is that a lot of them end up in the Dáil without ever having done anything except be a politician. One of the main reasons I think the age for a TD or any other elected office should be at least 30, get some life experience in the real world first.
 

BlackLion

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 21, 2010
Messages
4,856
I agree with both of you, but the unfortunate reality is that a lot of them end up in the Dáil without ever having done anything except be a politician. One of the main reasons I think the age for a TD or any other elected office should be at least 30, get some life experience in the real world first.
that still wont change the calibre of the politician. politicians and the youth politicians are parasites that feed off our fear and desperation. we will not have any new types of politicians until we break the mould that makes these parasites. Stop the entrance exam for getting into the Dail from being about lies and deceit and be about helping your country cause you care about it and not about the huge pay-off you get for lying thru your teeth. take away their money and most politicians in the Dail today would simply leave. Age means nothing.
 

cricket

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 7, 2009
Messages
13,959
I've encountered youth section of the 4 main parties and found it depressing all round. FF and FG are full of cloned wanabees who make it clear that their ambition is purely personal, want to go the council/Dáil route, they don't care what it takes.
Labour's seems full of people who haven't gone beyond the 80's.
I've met just a few of SF youth, strange combination, some hanker after the good old days ( before they were born ) of a bomb and a shooting every day, others would fit comfortably in FF.
Wilde was right, wasted on the young.
 

Victor Meldrew

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
7,172
The OP is why I avoided YFG in college. Some nice people, but as Tea party Patriot said, they need some life experience.

Valid points here. Lucinda is the embodiment of what is wrong with youth parties as a creche for TDs. In particular YFG are badly affected. Ditto the PDs when they were around.
 

Rocky

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 9, 2004
Messages
8,550
I have to say that the calibre of lot all the parties' youth members is worse than poor. They'd give a dog a bad name. I think that TD's and councillors and other party rep's. should sit down with a lot of their youth members and, if they are poor, start the process of encouraging them (because you can't just ask them to leave of course if they have done nothing wrong policy wise) to leave the parties. A lot of the parties' youth members are only supporting their parties in a careerist way.

I am thinking, in particular, of Ógra Fianna Fáil and Young Fine Gael. Because Labour don't have a big (politically speaking, in an Irish context) youth section as do not Sinn Féin etc. I believe.

I am not trying to encourage good young party members to leave their parties merely, at least, accept that they have a problem and maybe, if possible, go about addressing it.

Chiefly, though, I want elected public representatives to "get" that most people don't "get" the same people. In the real world.*

* I know this is going to infuriate many posters on this site and I don't hold a great deal of hope in the capabilities of most of the young party members to understand me so it would be good at least if their public representatives got what I am talking about.

I admire many politicians in Ireland. However a lot of the parties youth members (the youngest of them can be understood of course) would help turn people like me interested in politics apolitical.

I will personally speaking continue to be interested in politics but the calibre of some politicians and many of their members is something that contributes to the disillusionment of politics. Whether you believe that there are a disproportionately higher number of poor calibre youth members in YFG and OFF in particular in comparison to the number of their poor calibre older members is something for each individual to decide.

I have let you know what I think, on this.

I would love to be proved wrong.

D
Do you want to provide some examples, or another form of evidence or something like that.

It's a bit hard to debate/discuss your argument without it.
 

Rufty

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
445
That has to be a WUM OP. I would accept his point had he examples or experience to share but it's such a throw away remark. I can't speak for other parties, they're well capable to speak for themselves, but I will defend my own. I accept that all parties from their youth to their top tables have had/do have bad members but such a tarring of all with the one brush is unacceptable.

This weekend sees the Fianna Fáil National Youth Conference take place in Sligo. For an idea of what's going to be debated, the list of motions is available here: http://fail.3cdn.net/e797126e08d422e3b5_eum6be445.pdf
There is also a comprehensive Seanad Reform proposal up for adoption this weekend which would be the first group from any political party to put forward a reform proposal of their own. If adopted, I'll post a link to the document here.

Coming off the back of the last party Ard Fheis, Ógra has never been stronger policy wise in that it lead the charge on getting the same-sex marriage and adoption motions passed as well as the massive internal re-organization and the new ethics charter passed which is now the tightest of all parties in Ireland. Further to that, it was Ógra that got the senior party to ban corporate donations and passed that policy as well. Yes, there are naive members and you might not agree with the politics of our members but to write us all off with one broad brush stroke is at best fool-hardy.
 

Cassandra Syndrome

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 23, 2009
Messages
16,908
Always attracts authoritarian personalities. The breeding ground of future tyrants.

 

DJP

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
12,475
Don't get me wrong I think that is essential that realistic political parties have youth wings and I know and have known some fine members from all the party youth sections. In fact usually their Presidents are good. I don't know of one party youth President that is or was not good. I was merely pointing out that there is something toxic about a lot of their members- in YFG and Ógra Fianna Fáil anyway. Usually these members don't get elected to being their Presidents though touch wood.

Politicians can make what they will out of what I am saying.

If I was a politician I would merely not socialise much with these people and indeed encourage them to cop on and leave the parties.
 

Concerned Irishman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 27, 2009
Messages
1,307
Don't get me wrong I think that is essential that realistic political parties have youth wings and I know and have known some fine members from all the party youth sections. In fact usually their Presidents are good. I don't know of one party youth President that is or was not good. I was merely pointing out that there is something toxic about a lot of their members- in YFG and Ógra Fianna Fáil anyway. Usually these members don't get elected to being their Presidents though touch wood.

Politicians can make what they will out of what I am saying.

If I was a politician I would merely not socialise much with these people and indeed encourage them to cop on and leave the parties.
Yours seems to be a very specific experience, and not one shared by many. As in all organizations, you will find all sorts. I've met some RIGHT morons in Youth Wings, but I've also met some intelligent, decent and extremely knowledgable people in pretty much all of them - people who by just about every objective measure could teach their senior parties and politicians more than a thing or two.

I'm also heartened by anything that gets young people thinking about Politics and the country we live in - apathy is all too common in that generation, and we're living through where apathy mixed with a lack of new ideas has taken us
 

freewillie

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 3, 2013
Messages
7,453
I remember reading the advice that a judge gave to his nephew who was going to do law in college. "I dont care what political party you join buut once done stick with it through thick and thin. Their day will come and you will get your reward for loyalty"

When you see what goes on in appointing judges he was right. Apart from the obvious FF FG Lab appointments the Workers Party got a couple of their boys in as judges, the Green Party, the Shinners up North made sure their lads got governement appointments to various bodies etc If they dont make judge they will get on Immigration Appeals etc
 

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