Passport row raises question over Irish nationality

Podolski1.5

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The current "row" with Israel over its alleged use of Irish and other passports raises some interesting questions about our sovereignty.

The government are dealing with this almost exclusively as if were an EU issue as these were "EU passports" - yet Ireland is supposed to be a sovereign state. Personally I never signed up for EU citizenship and only wish to hold an Irish passport, not an EU one, whatever dubious benefits that passport is supposed to bring me.

Surely as a citizen of a sovereign state I can get an Irish passport?

Please do not move this to "Europe" or "Foreign Affairs" - it is a matter of national rights, therefore I have put it in "Justice".
 


CookieMonster

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The government are dealing with this almost exclusively as if were an EU issue as these were "EU passports" - yet Ireland is supposed to be a sovereign state. Personally I never signed up for EU citizenship and only wish to hold an Irish passport, not an EU one, whatever dubious benefits that passport is supposed to bring me.
Irish citizens did it on your behalf.
 

Podolski1.5

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yes, but I'm still an Irish citizen, presumably with constitutional rights - and we were told every time that our sovereignty was not being given away. So they were lying, were they?
 
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Its ok

muppet martin 'has been assured by Israel they didnt do it'

there you go, 'he has been assured'

so there you have it.

we are assured

good man michael.
 

Interista

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The current "row" with Israel over its alleged use of Irish and other passports raises some interesting questions about our sovereignty.
You're right to put 'row' in inverted commas. The response to this passport theft - almost certainly by Israel - has been notably subdued. All the relevant people are taking in abstract terms about 'abuse of passports' while rarely if ever mentioning the "I" word.
 

CookieMonster

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yes, but I'm still an Irish citizen, presumably with constitutional rights - and we were told every time that our sovereignty was not being given away. So they were lying, were they?
Yes, bit the Irish foreign Minister has been working on Ireland's behalf, he's been in contact with the Israelis and the Irish ambassador to Israel has also been working on the issue.

It is also an EU issue because Irish Passports are also EU passports. If the Minister has failed to do what you expect then that is a different matter.

I'm unsure what "interesting questions about our sovereignty" arise here.
 

kerdasi amaq

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We should put out an arrest warrant for the three people who used those passports, so if thing their pictures show up on other passports entering the EU, they can then be arrested and prosecuted. This should be a matter of no concern to Israel: as they say that they were not involved!
 

Interista

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We should put out an arrest warrant for the three people who used those passports, so if thing their pictures show up on other passports entering the EU, they can then be arrested and prosecuted.
I have a feelign that none of the Keystone Cops is going to be travelling much in the foreseeable future.
 

evercloserunion

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The current "row" with Israel over its alleged use of Irish and other passports raises some interesting questions about our sovereignty.

The government are dealing with this almost exclusively as if were an EU issue as these were "EU passports" - yet Ireland is supposed to be a sovereign state. Personally I never signed up for EU citizenship and only wish to hold an Irish passport, not an EU one, whatever dubious benefits that passport is supposed to bring me.

Surely as a citizen of a sovereign state I can get an Irish passport?

Please do not move this to "Europe" or "Foreign Affairs" - it is a matter of national rights, therefore I have put it in "Justice".
You might not have signed up for EU citizenship but the Irish people did, by a healthy margin too.
 

pippakin

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If the EU can be made to act it will obviously be stronger than Irish/UK acting independently. I dont know how much success even the EU will have since they have never shown much backbone when it comes to Israels little 'foibles'.
 

Podolski1.5

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The answers from those who support a Federal EU tend to confirm by supposition - frankly you're saying that Irish citizenship does not exist - it is only EU citizenship with a regional stamp on the front to keep some people happy.

This isn't a thread about the Mossad operation (and I've no doubt that's what it was) - this is specifically about the Irish passport and Irish citizenship.

I happily renounce my EU citizenship but insist on my right to an Irish passport as an Irish citizen.
 

evercloserunion

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The answers from those who support a Federal EU tend to confirm by supposition - frankly you're saying that Irish citizenship does not exist - it is only EU citizenship with a regional stamp on the front to keep some people happy.

This isn't a thread about the Mossad operation (and I've no doubt that's what it was) - this is specifically about the Irish passport and Irish citizenship.

I happily renounce my EU citizenship but insist on my right to an Irish passport as an Irish citizen.
You're going to have to take that one up with your fellow citizens who voted to grant citizenship to anyone holding citizenship of a member state.

Democracy is a b*tch isn't it? Now you are stuck with all those terrible burdens that come with EU citizenship. I'll leave it to you to enumerate those.
 

pd_phoenix

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The answers from those who support a Federal EU tend to confirm by supposition - frankly you're saying that Irish citizenship does not exist - it is only EU citizenship with a regional stamp on the front to keep some people happy.

This isn't a thread about the Mossad operation (and I've no doubt that's what it was) - this is specifically about the Irish passport and Irish citizenship.

I happily renounce my EU citizenship but insist on my right to an Irish passport as an Irish citizen.
go to the passport office and inform them of this and then tell us of your tale of getting a passport that doesn't exist.
 

Podolski1.5

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You're going to have to take that one up with your fellow citizens who voted to grant citizenship to anyone holding citizenship of a member state.

Democracy is a b*tch isn't it? Now you are stuck with all those terrible burdens that come with EU citizenship. I'll leave it to you to enumerate those.
Well ever closer union those folks thought they were voting for jobs (Yes for jobs, etc) - I'm not a constitutional lawyer, but I think there might just be a case here. Article 2 of the constitution says "It is the entitlement and birthright of every person born in the island of Ireland, which includes its islands and seas, to be part of the Irish Nation". I claim that birthright, but renounce any other nationality, EU or otherwise.
 

evercloserunion

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Well ever closer union those folks thought they were voting for jobs (Yes for jobs, etc) - I'm not a constitutional lawyer, but I think there might just be a case here. Article 2 of the constitution says "It is the entitlement and birthright of every person born in the island of Ireland, which includes its islands and seas, to be part of the Irish Nation". I claim that birthright, but renounce any other nationality, EU or otherwise.
Too right you're not a constitutional lawyer. EU citizenship was introduced not in Lisbon but in Maastricht, 18 years ago.

Just because you are granted a birthright by Bunreacht does not mean you can use that birthright as a constitutional basis for rejecting any other citizenship.
 

Podolski1.5

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Too right you're not a constitutional lawyer. EU citizenship was introduced not in Lisbon but in Maastricht, 18 years ago.

Just because you are granted a birthright by Bunreacht does not mean you can use that birthright as a constitutional basis for rejecting any other citizenship.
I'm well aware of what was introduced in Maastricht. I campaigned against it and some people accused me and others of telling untruths about the rights it took away from us.

Are you a constitutional lawyer? otherwise don't give advice on what I can or cannot do regarding my citizenship rights.
 

evercloserunion

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I'm well aware of what was introduced in Maastricht. I campaigned against it and some people accused me and others of telling untruths about the rights it took away from us.

Are you a constitutional lawyer? otherwise don't give advice on what I can or cannot do regarding my citizenship rights.
I am absolutely not giving you legal advice. But I am questioning your reasoning as to why the co-existence of EU and Irish citizenship diminishes Irish sovereignty and takes away our rights.
 

CookieMonster

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You might not have signed up for EU citizenship but the Irish people did, by a healthy margin too.
Yeah, we already covered that one. Well done for coming to the party though, better late than never.
 


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