Patients are a nuisance,they get in the way

cakeordeath

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Why our hospitals simply aren't working



“…patients are regarded as a nuisance … they get in the way of running the place.”
For that alone he has my respect.


Niall Hunter, editor. IrishHealth.com
11/03/09
Interview with Michael O keeffe, respected consultant Mater & in Temple Street.
Formerly a senior figure in the Irish Hospital Consultants Association.



… change needs to start at the top.

“Hospital chief executives do not know what is happening on the ground; they do not visit any clinics. They never come to see what the problems are.”

… 20% of nurses are now on administrative duty, walking around with clipboards and they do not see patients.”

… consultants who are doing the same; going off and doing other things, getting grants to do research and becoming professors. … not doing what they were appointed to do.

…“There is no-one overseeing things.
He asks all the questions we are sick of asking:

why don’t clinics start on time?
Why are they not at full capacity?
Why are the secretaries not there on time?
Why are operating lists not starting on time?
Why does everyone get an outpatient appointment at the same time?”
I have taken this one up repeatedly with consultants. I ( because of our son) am at the hospital every week for the last 8 years. Oh Boy! …do I have stories….

Mr O’Keeffe says hospitals cancel patient appointments and operations far too easily.
They do , but if YOU need to cancel/reschedule? You wait 6 months.

“The first thing that happens when a problem arises is we cancel the patient’s appointment or operation. It should be the very last resort to do this.”
Yes.

Mr O’Keeffe says the attitude now appears to be that public hospitals would run much better if there were no patients in them.
“By and large patients are regarded as a nuisance in the public hospital system. They get in the way of running the place.”
and … more patients will cause the Hosp. to go over budget......
And I believe him. Shocking!
Get people working properly;
get them in on time,
find out why the phone isn’t being answered,
why the desk isn’t being manned,
why the clinic isn’t running on time,
why the doctor is not there.
“They should say to doctors that they are there to treat patients. Nurses … you are there to nurse.
“The idea that co-located hospitals are going to fill the bed capacity gap is a joke, because co-located units are only going to be to be in a certain number of hospitals…

Mr O’Keeffe claims Fianna Fail in Government never really bought into the co-location idea but “it was a great excuse for them not to find the extra capacity”.

“So they went along with Mary Harney, whose motives were very much towards privatisation. She decided she couldn’t take on all the vested interests so she decided to bypass all that but it has backfired. There is no money to build the co-located hospitals now anyway.”

…He says the NTPF would not exist if public hospitals were running efficiently.


…and finally…
“In many cases it is only when the patient is leaving that the hospital realises they are private so they go chasing after them with an insurance form. A lot of public hospitals are relying on their private income to survive nowadays.”

It’s a joke. Lets face it, you sleep you on a trolley and bill you for five star.€€€€€€€€€€€€€€!

I hope someone listens.

Full article below.

http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=15197


our hospitals simply aren't working
 
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Pauli

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Excellent post. Here is a summary.

There is NO accountability in the upper reaches of the Irish health service, starting with the Minister for Health and working down. EVERYBODY avoids accountability and this avoidance is of gargantuan proportions. It is why the system is failing daily.
 

Middleaged

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Excellent post. Here is a summary.

There is NO accountability in the upper reaches of the Irish health service, starting with the Minister for Health and working down. EVERYBODY avoids accountability and this avoidance is of gargantuan proportions. It is why the system is failing daily.
I agree with you but, additionally the health unions also assisting in making the system inefficient.

I think its fair to say that we all want a health system that works, is it time for all the vested interests to sit down and sort it out?

My experience of the system is fairly positive, the systems work's to a large extent, but not without the regular poke, push and yell from me.
 

jpc

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Too many vested interests competing with each other rather than serving the public.
 

Pauli

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Too many vested interests competing with each other rather than serving the public.
And one must always remember that the Minister is dedicated to representing a specific set of vested interests, not necessarily in the interest of fostering and furthering a workable PUBLIC health policy, even though that is her job.
 

asset test

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Just as an example of inefficiency - my mother had an appt with consultant in public out patients. Time 2pm. 100 people arrived at the same time for the same appointment. So if you got there at 12 and waited and got your name down first, you are seen first. Mad!

Secondly, a trolley waits outside the consultants office. On it are the case files of all patients with appointments that day. Mum's is called, a nurse gathers up her file, and presents it to God (consultant). That is her job! Now that person has gone through 4 years of training, for what? to deliver a file to a doctor. I could do that myself. That is one reason we have a larger nurse to patient ratio than other countries, a lot of the nurses aren't actually nursing.

Its a bit like the civilian work that was once done by the Gardai. Slowly being undertaken by civvies.

I could go on, and on, and on, but generally, once in the system the care is good, it is A+E and outpatients that are the problem. Too many people at the one time, nurses not nursing.

I love a rant!
 

jpc

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And one must always remember that the Minister is dedicated to representing a specific set of vested interests, not necessarily in the interest of fostering and furthering a workable PUBLIC health policy, even though that is her job.
Can't argue that.
And when she initiated the HSE there was no cut in staffing due to political and union pressure.
 

orbit

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“There is inefficiency at every level and we are all at fault - doctors, nurses, porters, paramedical staff. It is all dysfunctional and the system has become very demoralised.”

“I work in the public and the private system and the private system is way more effective. I can run a theatre list in the private hospital I am attached to every Tuesday morning and I can do more than double the number of cases in the same time as I can do in the public hospital.”

Michael O’Keeffe says public hospitals need a Michael O’Leary type figure in charge who will “go in and take people on”.

“Such a figure could get practical things done. And go back to basics.”
Not sure about Michael O'Leary, but what he says above sounds right to me. I had to go to the D-DOC out of hours service the other day with my daughter. It's an excellent service, so I'm reluctant to criticise it. But apart from the GP, who I presume got the €60 that I paid, there were three other staff, presumably paid by the HSE - a security guard who sat at the reception doing nothing, a receptionist reading a book because she had practically nothing to do, and a nurse who was busy enough, but was duplicating a lot of the work of the doctor (ie. asking the same questions).

With a bit of organisation, I think the GP and the nurse could have managed the whole operation. I think it's that kind of inefficiency that the public system is rife with.
 

Pauli

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The O'Leary thing again. A loud-mouthed eccentric runs a bucket airline in an idiosyncratic manner and somehow he is the answer to all the problems in the public sector.

Strange
 

selfemployedmar

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The only way around this is to bring back the Matrons and let them run the hospitals, I was in a hospital recently and everyone including the nurses were running around like headless chickens with no direction, the halls were cluttered and hygiene was just terrible. The matrons were responsible for keeping the doctors, nurses and admin staff on their toes, wouldnt hear tell of unions, the matron was in charge and at all times staff care was a priority. If we had matrons back we would have spotless hospitals and less red tape. Its poor management and lack of direction and no one in charge
 

slx

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It seems the public service is full of organisations that see their 'customers' as an inconvience.

I've often thought that CIE (Iarnrod Eireann, Bus Eireann and Dublin Bus) see passengers as those awful people who prevent them from running a smooth, tidy bus and rail network.
 

Aindriu

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The only way around this is to bring back the Matrons and let them run the hospitals, I was in a hospital recently and everyone including the nurses were running around like headless chickens with no direction, the halls were cluttered and hygiene was just terrible. The matrons were responsible for keeping the doctors, nurses and admin staff on their toes, wouldnt hear tell of unions, the matron was in charge and at all times staff care was a priority. If we had matrons back we would have spotless hospitals and less red tape. Its poor management and lack of direction and no one in charge
We do have them already. Nowadays they are called Clinical Nurse Managers as males also do the role.
 

selfemployedmar

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We do have them already. Nowadays they are called Clinical Nurse Managers as males also do the role.
I must be a lot older than you! I am talking about the old way Matrons were over nurses, administration staff and doctors. They were mostly from a religious background, however it did work in the efficiency of the hospitals.
They ruled each hospital and were not answerable to anyone to the Public Sector. Now it is all union based and there is no accountability anymore.
 
N

NM_123

God, another moaning thread that is based entirely on anecdotes and cliches.

Someone does some Dunphy-esque aimless and emotiona mouthing off and suddenly people are all ears.
 

seabhac siulach

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Excellent post. Here is a summary.

There is NO accountability in the upper reaches of the Irish health service, starting with the Minister for Health and working down. EVERYBODY avoids accountability and this avoidance is of gargantuan proportions. It is why the system is failing daily.
I agree. I would go further, though, and say that Ireland's problem in general is that there is no accountability for anything...the Lisbon referendum fails: no one in the government is to blame; the banks/economy are in a mess/involved in corruption: no one is to blame; the hospital are in a mess: it is an act of God, etc., etc., etc. The buck stops nowhere in Ireland: a merry-go-round of pass the buck and shifting accountability that is suffocating, especially as we all know that the opposition would be no different. It would appear to be hard-wired into the system. A throwback to a colonised mindset, that everything is always someone else's responsibility?
 

The Lighthouse Keeper

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The O'Leary thing again. A loud-mouthed eccentric runs a bucket airline in an idiosyncratic manner and somehow he is the answer to all the problems in the public sector. Strange
Think of all the mad charges he'd come up with!
Extra fees for being tended to by one of the more aesthetically pleasing nurses etc. etc. :D
 

orbit

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God, another moaning thread that is based entirely on anecdotes and cliches.

Someone does some Dunphy-esque aimless and emotiona mouthing off and suddenly people are all ears.
I'm with you on the cliches, and there are a few of them "Patients are a nuisance .." etc. But give me a 100 anecdotes (ie. real people's stories) any day over the knee-jerk ideology that these debates typically descend into.

Consultants, nurses, NCHDs, administrators - the whole lot of them are vested interests. One notable thing about the article was the author's acceptance of that at least.
 
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justcallmetex

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My wife was diagnosed with Throat Caner. She required a biopsy, following her treatment the hospital called us up to Dublin from Sligo and I'm not making this up on a Thursday to hold a bed to have the biopsy on a Monday they claim of our health insurance and put her on a public ward with 2 fu(kin Junkies allowing her to leave the hospital in the morning to return at 8 every evening we have a young daughter who misses her mother. I swear to god you couldn't make this up. How in all seriousness can a situation this be allowed and it's a normal practice.
 

justcallmetex

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God, another moaning thread that is based entirely on anecdotes and cliches.

Someone does some Dunphy-esque aimless and emotiona mouthing off and suddenly people are all ears.
Fu(k you. My post is based on what happens. I hope for your sake you never experience the last 14 months of what my wife has been put through in our modern Irish Hospitals.

You have some nerve to consider yourself a socialist.
 


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