Paul Krugman debates a crucial question: can Trump enthusiasts answer him?

Malcolm Redfellow

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So to Paul Krugman's Op-Ed piece for the New York Times:
In general, you shouldn’t pay much attention to polls at this point, especially with Republicans unifying around Donald Trump while Bernie Sanders hasn’t conceded the inevitable. Still, I was struck by several recent polls showing Mr. Trump favored over Hillary Clinton on the question of who can best manage the economy.

This is pretty remarkable given the incoherence and wild irresponsibility of Mr. Trump’s policy pronouncements. Granted, most voters probably don’t know anything about that, in part thanks to substance-free news coverage. But if voters don’t know anything about Mr. Trump’s policies, why their favorable impression of his economic management skills?
I'd like to see our local Trumpers rebut his mini-thesis. Because this is an issue that, for certain-sure, will resonate decisively all the way to 8th November.

But, before you bloviate, do Krugman the favo(u)r of digesting his argument.
 


GDPR

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I am not a Trumper, and I agree with Krugman that it is unikely that the golf (and tax) cheat could run the economy.

There is also a big myth that the POTUS can influence the economy, but imho it is just luck if it is OK during a term, and mostly bad luck if it isn't. (Ssh about that!) Hence Bill Clinton had good luck. On the other hand, some Presidential policies can really stuff up at least part of the economy, for instance Bush II's invasion of Iraq cost a fortune and is still costing the USA. The government has continuing debt.

So any President who goes to war is not going to help the economy except the weapons industry part.

The golf cheat is telling lies that some people want to hear: he tells the people of the coal mining industries that he's going to bring back their jobs. He won't and he can't. Afaik the coal industry is owned by private businesses. But he'll likely get their votes come November. And why don't the coal miners and their families retrain themselves and move to an area which does have jobs. Instead they stay and mope and whine about their plight which I agree is sad.

The tax cheat also claims that he'll bring the jobs back home from overseas, mostly China. I guess he can influence by promising tax cuts or something like that to private industries to make their products in their own country, but again I doubt he'd succeed. One major problem is automisation. Robots are increadingly being used to make products (Philips shavers are already nearly 100% robot-made - and made in The Netherlands now, not in China). Apple is proud to say that its top of the range desktop computer is designed and made in the USA, but maybe a lot of it is made by robots. It is leaving most of its other products to be made overseas partly because it wants to keep China as one of its biggest markets.

So the products may again be made in the USA, but it won't help the workers to have jobs again. And the robotisation will affect Chinese workers too. There is likely to be mass unemployment there.

Incidentally I am in favour of bringing the jobs back home, but I cannot see how it can be done to revitalise the areas of the USA which lost them to globalisation.

There is much more to the Presidency than the economy though, and Trump fails in all of them. The only thing he excels in is cruel insults. He will bring shame and embarrassment to Americans should they be stupid enough to elect him.

Note I am not an economist, then again most piesters aren't either. We would not be here if we did not have our opinions.
 
D

Deleted member 48908

Given he advocated an alien invasion for fixing the economy, it's no wonder Krugs dislikes the Donald, what with his yooooge wall to keep aliens out and all.
 

A REASON

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Trump is a madman but Clinton? She let's her husband sleep around and puts up with it in an effort to gain power. She's freakishly obsessed with it and will do anything to get it. She's a nut!
 

Mad as Fish

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I am not a Trumper, and I agree with Krugman that it is unikely that the golf (and tax) cheat could run the economy.

There is also a big myth that the POTUS can influence the economy
, but imho it is just luck if it is OK during a term, and mostly bad luck if it isn't. (Ssh about that!) Hence Bill Clinton had good luck. On the other hand, some Presidential policies can really stuff up at least part of the economy, for instance Bush II's invasion of Iraq cost a fortune and is still costing the USA. The government has continuing debt.

So any President who goes to war is not going to help the economy except the weapons industry part.

The golf cheat is telling lies that some people want to hear: he tells the people of the coal mining industries that he's going to bring back their jobs. He won't and he can't. Afaik the coal industry is owned by private businesses. But he'll likely get their votes come November. And why don't the coal miners and their families retrain themselves and move to an area which does have jobs. Instead they stay and mope and whine about their plight which I agree is sad.

The tax cheat also claims that he'll bring the jobs back home from overseas, mostly China. I guess he can influence by promising tax cuts or something like that to private industries to make their products in their own country, but again I doubt he'd succeed. One major problem is automisation. Robots are increadingly being used to make products (Philips shavers are already nearly 100% robot-made - and made in The Netherlands now, not in China). Apple is proud to say that its top of the range desktop computer is designed and made in the USA, but maybe a lot of it is made by robots. It is leaving most of its other products to be made overseas partly because it wants to keep China as one of its biggest markets.

So the products may again be made in the USA, but it won't help the workers to have jobs again. And the robotisation will affect Chinese workers too. There is likely to be mass unemployment there.

Incidentally I am in favour of bringing the jobs back home, but I cannot see how it can be done to revitalise the areas of the USA which lost them to globalisation.

There is much more to the Presidency than the economy though, and Trump fails in all of them. The only thing he excels in is cruel insults. He will bring shame and embarrassment to Americans should they be stupid enough to elect him.

Note I am not an economist, then again most piesters aren't either. We would not be here if we did not have our opinions.
And the same applies to a taoisach.
 

GDPR

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Given he advocated an alien invasion for fixing the economy, it's no wonder Krugs dislikes the Donald, what with his yooooge wall to keep aliens out and all.
"Aliens" can be really good for the economy. Australia's generally successful economy was built by massive immigration particularly after WW2.

Otoh immigration did not do the Argentine economy much good at all.
 
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MichaelR

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I think that whoever say "he will manage the economy well" are following the simple logic of "he managed a business so he can manage the economy", rather than any policy analysis as such.
 
D

Deleted member 48908

"Aliens" can be really good for the economy. Australia's generally successful economy was built by massive immigration particularly after WW2.

Otoh immigration did not done the Argentine economy much good at all.
Whoooooosh!
 

GDPR

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I think that whoever say "he will manage the economy well" are following the simole logic of "he managed a business so he can manage the economy", rather than any policy analysis as such.
He's managed a few bankruptcies too.
 

cyberianpan

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Krugman had a justly earned reputation as a prize winning economist

He subsequently abused that reputation as a bully pulpit to deliver rash polemics, often absent a mere screed of evidence, e.g. his exhortations for Greece to go back to the Drachma...a diseased spoofomaniac trading off past glories

Krugman would best shut his bearded cake hole about Trump, as an intervention from so disreputable a character as Kruggers risks boosting Trump...for what? To make Kruggers and his Daily Kos fanbase feel that they are ever so important, having whopping penises and ought to rule the world due to their superiority at glib moral smugness?

If Trump can't be taken to a CIA blacksite, perhaps Kruggers and his ilk ought to be

Cyp
 

gleeful

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Trump is a lot like Reagan. Reagan was a nutter too and totally unpredictable. He started a war with the island of Grenada (pop. 80k) and declared it a threat to the US. His troops looted the island's library, finding nothing else of value.

Reagan also, least we forget, illegally sold weapons to Iran and used the money to fund terrorism in Central America. Mysteriously, the terrorist groups he funded were behind drug smuggling into the US using planes the CIA gave them. This was the period of the Crack epidemic and a massive spike in violence and the murder rate. The terrorists Reagan funded (against a specific US law which forbid exactly him from doing exactly that) carried out 1300 terrorist attacks, murdering hundreds of thousands.

It was also the time when the US helped the Saudis build up the Afghan terrorists and kill millions. They gave anti-aircraft missiles to Saudi nutters fighting in the Afghan mountains. Reagan dedicated the first Space Shuttle flight to those anti-aircraft missile wielding murderers.

Oh, and we had the 1987 stock market crash and housing crash on his watch. Era of Gordon Gekko.



We've been here before.

 

Mad as Fish

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"Aliens" can be really good for the economy. Australia's generally successful economy was built by massive immigration particularly after WW2.

Otoh immigration did not do the Argentine economy much good at all.
Australia needed labour to exploit her agricultural and mineral resources, as a country it was grossly under populated. America is hardly in the same position.
 

Trainwreck

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Krugman sold his credibility as an economic commentator a long time ago. He is far too politically motivated now to take anything he says as objective economic analysis.

Having said that Trump has spouted some ideas that would be bad, mostly around increased protectionism and tariffs.

On the other hand, his claims that he would sweep away the entire "climate change" policy of Obama, free up the fossil fuel industry from excessive regulation, lift the veto on Keystone are extremely positive.

Also positive is his commitment that relate Obamacare. That would reap massive positive benefits.

Of course Trump shoots from the lip and you don't really know what he would do. But he does seem pragmatic and his lack of rigid ideology would mean not marrying himself to stupid ideas that are clearly bad - something that plagues Obama.

All in all, who knows. Above all GOVERNMENT DOESN'T RUN THE ECONOMY. That is just Socialist wet dreams.
 

Mad as Fish

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Krugman sold his credibility as an economic commentator a long time ago. He is far too politically motivated now to take anything he says as objective economic analysis.

Having said that Trump has spouted some ideas that would be bad, mostly around increased protectionism and tariffs.

On the other hand, his claims that he would sweep away the entire "climate change" policy of Obama, free up the fossil fuel industry from excessive regulation, lift the veto on Keystone are extremely positive.

Also positive is his commitment that relate Obamacare. That would reap massive positive benefits.

Of course Trump shoots from the lip and you don't really know what he would do. But he does seem pragmatic and his lack of rigid ideology would mean not marrying himself to stupid ideas that are clearly bad - something that plagues Obama.

All in all, who knows. Above all GOVERNMENT DOESN'T RUN THE ECONOMY. That is just Socialist wet dreams.
But but but.... all the FG shills tell us that their beloved recovery is due to the radiant holiness of St Enda the Sober!
 

Fractional Reserve

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People avoiding paying taxes.
it would not have made any difference , they would have used bigger tax take to borrow even more and buy votes , its what governments do governments .Greece is only one country have a real good look at the whole of Europe it ain't far behind .
 
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Ardillaun

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Any foreign leader who kowtowed to Trump on walls or trade or whatever would be toast immediately. No country will tolerate that, not even Canada, and certainly not the Chinese.
 


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