Paul Williams and free state Delusion

Tomas Mor

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Gerry O'Carroll was one of the coppers invovled in the Kerry Babies scandal. Sometimes writes as a crime correspondent for Sir O'Reilly's Evening Herald - now their's a credible personality for you. Maybe Det Sgt John White of the infamous McBreaty scandal will be writing fairy stories alongside O'Carroll, Williams and Jim Cusak in one of Sir O'Reilly's comics soon.

Kerry Babies Tribunal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When the garda were caught with their pants down in Kerry baby saga-after baby was found on Hayes' farm,and blood group did not match one found at Slea Head/Cahirciveen, they came up with the theory of superfecundation - twins by two different fathers, which is a a several million to one chance !
 


Cael

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Well its a relative term of course

TBH the 1960s were certainly less violent but I think the 1970s saw an end to any sense of private safety being the natural order of things - esp in Dublin.

The North in the 1970s was of course very violent but outside of politics relatively safe for those not caught up in it.
But you are just looking at the manifest violence. You are not looking at the violence of the social relations themselves, of the class structure, which were ferocious in the 60s and 70s, even worse than now.
 

Cael

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I think it is pretty well known that the Sinn Fein of the war of independance period asked Labour party members to stand aside in the GE at the time in respect of the national question

That was the first and biggest stroke that the forefathers of FF and FG portrayed on the ordinary working classes in this country in cahoots with the church....

The republic of Larkin and Connolly was sold down the river by the usual bunch of crooks whose descendants are still trying to blame us for all the ills of the country....

I'm with other posters ..lets bring it on and hopefully it will be the last part of the war of independance..justice and the political system has failed in this country for the majority
Yes, a chara, Sinn Féin was a bourgeois party, and was horrified at the thought of workers organising themselves and exercising their power. The Limerick Soviet was, in many ways, and even greater moment than Easter 1916, but it was overthrown, not by the Brits, but by an unholy alliance between the Sinn Féin misleadership, the Catholic hierarchy, and the Trade Union misleadership.
 

Cael

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Class division? This being the country that has lower class scumbags(Fianna Fail) running our country forever.
They are just the footmen for the real rulers of Ireland, i.e. the landed oligarchy and their bankers. Not that this oligarchy has any of the education and refinement that the term "ruling class" sometimes evokes.
 

JoseyWhales

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The likes of Williams is actually a far worse evil then any secret organisation, drug baron or gangster combined, he feeds the most easily led and under educated in society complete tripe and hype that diverts them from investigating the far far worse evils in that operate in the establishment that controls and inhibits them.
 

Cael

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While TG4 is showing the excellent Seactar na Cásca, RTÉ is wasting its money on tabloid garbage like Paul Williams. Says it all really.
 

Dasayev

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While TG4 is showing the excellent Seactar na Cásca, RTÉ is wasting its money on tabloid garbage like Paul Williams. Says it all really.
He was on to promote a new crime TV series. I think they mentioned that it's made by Praxis, which is linked to Eoghan Harris.

So I guess the Littlejohns won't be getting a mention;).
 

king5494

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Class division? This being the country that has lower class scumbags(Fianna Fail) running our country forever.
Nope FF scumbags are driven around the Country in mercs driven by the law.
 

king5494

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The likes of Williams is actually a far worse evil then any secret organisation, drug baron or gangster combined, he feeds the most easily led and under educated in society complete tripe and hype that diverts them from investigating the far far worse evils in that operate in the establishment that controls and inhibits them.
What about the so called Educated running the country (into the ground), You don't need to be educated to be intelligent .
 

Kilbarry

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Crime Rate Then and Now

But you are just looking at the manifest violence. You are not looking at the violence of the social relations themselves, of the class structure, which were ferocious in the 60s and 70s, even worse than now.
From article in the Evening Herald yesterday:
How scourge of gun crime started ... and spread like a cancer - National News, Frontpage - Herald.ie

In 1966 there were just four murders in the State, none of which involved firearms.

There were only 300 prisoners behind bars in Ireland in 1966 compared with more than 4,000 today.


While I have little time for the Herald, these are the kind of statements that can easily be checked.

Incidentally it looks like the murder rate is 20 times higher today whereas the prison population is "only" a little over 10 times as high. It may be that other crimes of violence have not increased as much as murder. Or more likely - people are not being imprisoned today for crimes that would have got them locked away in the 1960s. Instead they get fines or community service OR they are let out early because society cannot supply enough prison places to hold them. Whatever one may call it, this is NOT "tolerance".
 

Feelinglost

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There were only 300 prisoners behind bars in Ireland in 1966 compared with more than 4,000 today.
There were only 2.6 million people in the Country in 1966 as compared to more than 4.5 million today. The moronic war on drugs had yet to materialise and so on and so on. I can't really see the point in trying to compare 1966 with 2010.

crime_by_sentence Makes for some interesting reading.
 

Kilbarry

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There were only 2.6 million people in the Country in 1966 as compared to more than 4.5 million today. The moronic war on drugs had yet to materialise and so on and so on. I can't really see the point in trying to compare 1966 with 2010.

crime_by_sentence Makes for some interesting reading.
Has the Irish population nearly doubled since 1966? That would not account for a 20 fold increase in the murder rate and a 10 fold plus increase in the prison population. The reason there was not a "moronic war on drugs" in the 1960s was that drugs were a minute problem then compared to now. And legalising them would not return us to the 1960s crime rate either. From the Sunday Tribune on 25 June 2006:
The nature of the beast facing CAB

Exclusive interview with Criminal Assets Bureau boss Superintendent Felix McKenna.....

Massive cocaine use among young men in the criminal underworld has a fatal result, he notes.

"These guys [younger criminals] have no inhibitions in shooting each other. They're thugs and villains." McKenna says his peers among the senior ranks of the force involved in the investigation of homicide believe that the use of cocaine by young and lethally armed criminals is a key driving force in rising murder rates in gangland. "They attribute it to the use of cocaine by these people, the shooters. . . I've asked my counterpart in the drugs squad, and other senior officers, what is driving these fellas to do these killings and they've said it's cocaine."
 

Kilbarry

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60 Dead in Worst Year for Killings since Civil War [2005]

From The Sunday Tribune, 1st January 2006 by John Burke and Eoghan Rice
Sixty dead in worst year for killings since the Civil War

THE past 12 months have been the bloodiest in the peacetime history of the State, with Waterford emerging as the new murder capital of Ireland. A total of 60 people were killed violently in Ireland during 2005, the highest number since the ending of the Civil War. .....

While almost half of the killings took place in Dublin, the four people violently killed in Waterford gives the southeast county the highest ratio of killings per head of population. ...... The largest increase in killings in Ireland was related to organised crime, with a twofold increase in the number of people killed in gangland feuds over the past 12 months. Nineteen people, all of whom were men, were killed as a result of disputes between criminal gangs.

The proliferation of firearms among criminal gangs is now seen by gardai as a major problem in curbing the growing homicide rate. Fuelled by an increase in the drugs trade and in the accessability of highperformance handguns in particular, criminal gangs . . .especially in Dublin . . . have become increasingly lethal.

However, 41 of the 60 killings in 2005 had no connection to organised crime, highlighting a growing problem of excessive violence in Ireland. Many of the young men who were killed over the past 12 months died from injuries sustained during late-night alcohol-fuelled fights.

Almost half of all male victims were either beaten or stabbed to death. Guns accounted for over 40% of all killings of males in 2005, with 20 men shot to death. Of those, only one . . . the killing of Carlow farmer James Healy, who was fatally shot over a land dispute . . . was not gang-related.

Eight women were killed in 2005, a slight decrease from 2004. Of the eight, three were beaten to death, with a further three dying as a result of stab wounds. Charges have been brought in six of these cases. It is generally easier to prosecute after a woman's death because in most cases the alleged assailant was known to the victim. .............
 

Abacus

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Gerry O'Carroll was one of the coppers invovled in the Kerry Babies scandal. ]Kerry Babies Tribunal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]
The JH-Rea of the Blues. The selfserving pap served up by this Jack-in-the-Box rustic is stomach churning to the great bulk of modest and honourable Gardai who know it belongs to another age.
 

Catalpa

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But you are just looking at the manifest violence. You are not looking at the violence of the social relations themselves, of the class structure, which were ferocious in the 60s and 70s, even worse than now.
What exactly do you mean by the violence of the social relations themselves

That people went around beating each other up due to class differences?
 

owedtojoy

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Williams has made more money out of Irish crime than the criminals have. If it wasnt for them, this useless git would be on the dole.
Williams makes me both nauseous and annoyed. He is just a parasite feeding off the criminals and sensationalizing their antics. By giving them headlines, he is probably doing more to attract stupid young men to the "heroic, legendary" lifestyle of his villains.

On the other hand, a lot of demobilized IRA and INLA men have contracted themselves out to private crimnals and part of the crime problems is these thugs using the "skills" they were taught in the "war". And I am wary of a "class conflict" sole-explanantion for crime. Millions who start in poor environments make it without resorting to crime.
 

Cael

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From article in the Evening Herald yesterday:
How scourge of gun crime started ... and spread like a cancer - National News, Frontpage - Herald.ie

In 1966 there were just four murders in the State, none of which involved firearms.

There were only 300 prisoners behind bars in Ireland in 1966 compared with more than 4,000 today.


While I have little time for the Herald, these are the kind of statements that can easily be checked.

Incidentally it looks like the murder rate is 20 times higher today whereas the prison population is "only" a little over 10 times as high. It may be that other crimes of violence have not increased as much as murder. Or more likely - people are not being imprisoned today for crimes that would have got them locked away in the 1960s. Instead they get fines or community service OR they are let out early because society cannot supply enough prison places to hold them. Whatever one may call it, this is NOT "tolerance".
Again, you are looking at the lack of reaction to the violence of the social relations. In other words, in the 1960s, nearly all the violence was carried out by the landed oligarchy against the working class (including sending poor children to be raped, excluding their parents from the means of production, and forcing one in two of them into exile).
 

Cael

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They are still from lower class backgrounds and get lower class votes.
Thats their function. To secure the semblance of consent for oligarch misrule.
 


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