Paul Williams and free state Delusion

Cael

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For RTÉ, the only violence is when the poor fight back.
 


Cael

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What are you talking about? Fianna Fail are lower class thugs that want to prance about playing aristocrats.

That may be so, but like Bush and Obama in the US, they are merely a front for the real rulers of Ireland.
 
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I must have lived in another Dublin so, back in the 1960s. Never saw any of this horrendous violence by the cops and I lived in a Corporation house in Crumlin. Never saw much violence by anyone at all, apart from Sister Mary Francis who was a sadistic bride of Christ, God help him, and we all hated her, but we got our own back on her in our own ways.

The "Troubles" up the North were just starting when I left Ireland in '68, and as far as my teenage memory goes, it meant sod all to us going to the Clubs, as we were only interested in "peace man" and ironing our hair.

Strange how memories can be so different,isn't it. Oh, and before someone has a heart attack, I left school at 15 to work, the mother was a widow with 8 kids and worked part time, we had no money at all, worked every summer holiday with a forged birth cert which was the norm back then, except when I won a scholarship to the Gaelteacht when I was 13, and even then I worked in a sewing factory for a month before I went.

The biggest crimes on the Corpo estates were committed by drunken men, no change there, beating their wives and kids, and the only weed we knew about were dandelions.
 

Desperate Dan

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What about the Animal Gang and other types that terrorised the people of Dublin
 

sgtharper

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In the schools, they had teachers who used to beat people up.
In the Guards ... well, I had a teacher who spoke very highly of Lugs
In working-class areas of Dublin in the 1960's, EVERYBODY spoke highly of Luggs Brannigan..........having said that, they also spoke highly of the Christian Brothers?
 

sgtharper

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What about the Animal Gang and other types that terrorised the people of Dublin
Yeah, in about the 1930's, few people alive today who remember that!
 

SevenStars

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The "Troubles" up the North were just starting when I left Ireland in '68, and as far as my teenage memory goes, it meant sod all to us going to the Clubs, as we were only interested in "peace man" and ironing our hair.
Did they ever mean anything to you?....:rolleyes:

So why others were getting their noses smashed in by pigs from Paris to Derry you were concerned about "ironing your hair"?

The 60s were filled with anti-colonial and anti-capitalist struggles...Very little to do with "Peace man".
 
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Did they ever mean anything to you?....:rolleyes:

So why others were getting their noses smashed in by pigs from Paris to Derry you were concerned about "ironing your hair"?

The 60s were filled with anti-colonial and anti-capitalist struggles...Very little to do with "Peace man".
I knew that would freak you out SS, that's why I put it in. And you fell for it, hook, line and sinker. You really ought to get out more, try to be a bit happy once in a while. it's amazing what a bit of a laugh and a joke can do for those around you.

I did my bit for the world I lived in, and live in. I don't need to go on about it endlessly. You are an embarrassment, especially to those of us who worked at the coal face of poverty and disease.
 

SevenStars

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Its a lack of seriousness mixed with (self righteous?) self pity that has got this country where it is.
 

eoghanacht

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Its a lack of seriousness mixed with (self righteous?) self pity that has got this country where it is.
Yep, the 'ah, sure it'll be grand' attitude has brought us to this
 
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Its a lack of seriousness mixed with (self righteous?) self pity that has got this country where it is.
No, it's corrupt politicians, greedy money grubbing swine, and murdering cowardly bastards who use their "love of country" to do anything they want, and to destroy anyone they want, always ensuring that they end up on top, where they belong, with the scum.

And it's people like you, who have all the jargon off to a tee, but who actually do sod all to help those who genuinely do need help that piss me off. You know nothing about me, but let me tell you one thing. I learnt a long time ago that if you cannot laugh at yourself then you should not inflict yourself on anyone else. Because referring to human beings as "lumpen prolatariat" as you do on a boringly regular basis, says it all for me. You do not see the spirit in a person. Only what your own spirit allows you to see, and that is obviously not a very nice experience. So SS, look to yourself first for a change, and see if you need any life changing experiences. Like laughing once in a whle, at yourself.
 

EUrJokingMeRight

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Blaming the IRA for causing violent crime is like blaming Paul Williams for being a journalist.
On the surface it might seem plausible but after even a seconds thought one has to discount such over simplistic nonsense.
 

Kilbarry

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Crime Rate Then and Now

From The Sunday Tribune, 1st January 2006 by John Burke and Eoghan Rice
Sixty dead in worst year for killings since the Civil War

THE past 12 months have been the bloodiest in the peacetime history of the State, with Waterford emerging as the new murder capital of Ireland. A total of 60 people were killed violently in Ireland during 2005, the highest number since the ending of the Civil War. .....

While almost half of the killings took place in Dublin, the four people violently killed in Waterford gives the southeast county the highest ratio of killings per head of population. ...... The largest increase in killings in Ireland was related to organised crime, with a twofold increase in the number of people killed in gangland feuds over the past 12 months. Nineteen people, all of whom were men, were killed as a result of disputes between criminal gangs.

The proliferation of firearms among criminal gangs is now seen by gardai as a major problem in curbing the growing homicide rate. Fuelled by an increase in the drugs trade and in the accessability of highperformance handguns in particular, criminal gangs . . .especially in Dublin . . . have become increasingly lethal.

However, 41 of the 60 killings in 2005 had no connection to organised crime, highlighting a growing problem of excessive violence in Ireland. Many of the young men who were killed over the past 12 months died from injuries sustained during late-night alcohol-fuelled fights.

Almost half of all male victims were either beaten or stabbed to death. Guns accounted for over 40% of all killings of males in 2005, with 20 men shot to death. Of those, only one . . . the killing of Carlow farmer James Healy, who was fatally shot over a land dispute . . . was not gang-related.

Eight women were killed in 2005, a slight decrease from 2004. Of the eight, three were beaten to death, with a further three dying as a result of stab wounds. Charges have been brought in six of these cases. It is generally easier to prosecute after a woman's death because in most cases the alleged assailant was known to the victim. .............
Quote from John Boland's review of "Badfellas" in the Indo last Saturday the 6th - it doesn't seeem to be on the Internet:

Before this new era of the gun [from 1970], serious crime had been almost unknown in Ireland, and former Justice Minister Des O'Malley recalled being a young barrister in the Limerick of the 1960s when, at sitttings of the Circuit Court, the county registrar would present the judge with a pair of white gloves.

This he said was no signify that there was no indictable crime to be dealt with, and he added: I don't think there were white gloves in the Limerick of the 1980s, 1990s or 2000s or that there will ever be again".


This was of course a Dark Era in which the State and the Catholic Church worked hand in hand to control people's lives. Now we have freedom and secularism and the results are wonderful!
 

Kilbarry

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Massive Increase in Crime Since the 1960s

Since John Boland's article "The Deadly Cliches That Rock the State" doesn't seem to be available on line I will quote more of it. (Boland largely agrees with Paul William's thesis in "Badfellas" on the rise of violent crime from 1970 onwards; he just thinks Williams presents it in hackneyed terms.)

...... it was the contention of Williams that from 1970 onwards, violent republicanism - perpetrated in the South by the headbangers of Saor Eire and in the North by the Provos - was what almost immediately led to a new kind of criminality, one that embraced the same callous disregard for human life as that of the terrorists.

Before this new era of the gun, serious crime had been almost unknown in Ireland, and former Justice Minister Des O'Malley recalled being a young barrister in the Limerick of the 1960s when, at sitttings of the Circuit Court, the county registrar would present the judge with a pair of white gloves.

This he said was no signify that there was no indictable crime to be dealt with, and he added: I don't think there were white gloves in the Limerick of the 1980s, 1990s or 2000s or that there will ever be again".


The 1960s as portrayed here were blissful years or at least they were until towards the end of the decade when the Saor Eire psychos started robbing banks with guns, culminating in the 1970 Arran Quay murder of Garda Richard Fallon about which his son spoke eloquently in the film.

And then along came the Provos who made Saor Eire look like a bunch of amateurs and encouraged the Irish criminal fraternity to emulate their vicious practises. - and get away with them too as the Government of the day was so preoccupied with counter-terrorism that it failed to see what was happening.

That was the thesis and it was one with which it was difficult to argue. Certainly none of the Garda top brass or politicians in the film took issue with it, although Des O'Malley thought it might be an "overstatement" to insist that our current "crime situation" was a legacy of this terrorist violence.

For myself I think that the introduction of drugs as a major criminal commodity changed everything, but no doubt Williams will get around to this in the next two programmes. Now if he could only keep the cliches at bay ...
 

GridLock

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Crime statistics are very subjective to accurate research none of which can be done in ireland accurately,even today with so many people in ireland under the radar.

In the 1960's they never delved into areas that would have turned out the child abuse scandals there are today,or people just gone 'missing'..

Not much of an accurate representation in the dail to this day,as they can't even get the census right,how many crimes happen in ireland without anybodys knowledge..
 

Dohville

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Didn't think williams was old enough to have lived when Ireland was a free state.......................
 


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