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Pay low quality people not to have kids


cyberianpan

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A New Zealand politician has recently stepped into a political storm by advocating low quality people be paid for voluntary sterilization:

OZ News

"That there is a group within our society who give their children no hope nor opportunity from the moment that they are born," the regional mayor wrote on the New Zealand radio website where he broadcasts as a talkback DJ.

"That these ‘parents’ are known to authorities ... and yet the authorities can only intervene after children have been harmed."

Mr Laws goes on to write: "it would be far better for this appalling underclass to be offered financial inducements not to have children, given the toxic environment that they would provide for any child in their care."
He is suggesting that a ~ €5,000 bribe would be adequate

I think we should consider this in Ireland. In housing estates around the country there are many people having children and frankly it is cruel to the children. Now there are of course some upstanding people who are on long term dole (due to medical reasons etc) and I'm not talking about them. I'm talking about the petty criminals , alcoholics & other drug addicts. Currently the State gives massive subsidies for rearing these children (dole, children's allowance, housing, health etc) and I think it is a cruel thing for the State to do. These children will grow up in misery and be at risk of going into crime & an early death.

So I propose we offer a €15,000 bribe to all long term dolers if they underwent voluntary sterilization. It would represent good value for money when you consider the future cost of those children to the State.

cYp
 

The Caped Cod

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Can you please give a definition of "low quality people" along with your salary, educational achievements, tax returns, a letter from your parish priest and birthcert so I can decide where I sit on the people quality metre as compared to you.

Seriously though this is a rather dangerous line of thought. Are you really willing to allow OUR STATE (and not just some theoetical state democraticly run with honest intelligent elected politicinas) to decide who should and shouldn't have children? Sterilisation, even on a voluntary basis, based on your "quality" could lead to some rather totalitarian results should enough people fail to "volunteer" and those "offered" this choice are no longer in a position to say no.
 

sarahj

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A New Zealand politician has recently stepped into a political storm by advocating low quality people be paid for voluntary sterilization:



He is suggesting that a ~ €5,000 bribe would be adequate

I think we should consider this in Ireland. In housing estates around the country there are many people having children and frankly it is cruel to the children. Now there are of course some upstanding people who are on long term dole (due to medical reasons etc) and I'm not talking about them. I'm talking about the petty criminals , alcoholics & other drug addicts. Currently the State gives massive subsidies for rearing these children (dole, children's allowance, housing, health etc) and I think it is a cruel thing for the State to do. These children will grow up in misery and be at risk of going into crime & an early death.

So I propose we offer a €15,000 bribe to all long term dolers if they underwent voluntary sterilization. It would represent good value for money when you consider the future cost of those children to the State.

cYp
FFS. Will you ever just piss off?!
 

JCSkinner

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The Freakonomics lads presented a compelling argument that abortion caused a large drop in serious crime rates about 15 to 20 years later, since a generation of crims-to-be had never made it to birth.
You may not like the eugenics aspect of this proposal, but it is clear that it is based on sound logic.
 

sarahj

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Can you please give a definition of "low quality people" along with your salary, educational achievements, tax returns, a letter from your parish priest and birthcert so I can decide where I sit on the people quality metre as compared to you.

Seriously though this is a rather dangerous line of thought. Are you really willing to allow OUR STATE (and not just some theoetical state democraticly run with honest intelligent elected politicinas) to decide who should and shouldn't have children? Sterilisation, even on a voluntary basis, based on your "quality" could lead to some rather totalitarian results should enough people fail to "volunteer" and those "offered" this choice are no longer in a position to say no.
Cyp would like to see the world mainly inhabited by rich people. He forgets that these "low quality" people will produce children which his children will need to sweep their roads, collect their bins, clean their toilets etc. [His conception of a "high quality" person probably couldn't manage these menial tasks for themselves at all!]
 

cyberianpan

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Can you please give a definition of "low quality people" .
Well the State already has very stringent standards regards adoption, I'd suggest these could be used

Seriously though this is a rather dangerous line of thought. Are you really willing to allow OUR STATE (and not just some theoetical state democraticly run with honest intelligent elected politicinas) to decide who should and shouldn't have children?
.
It already does regards adoption

I think it is cruel to let some people have children

cYp
 

controller

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A New Zealand politician has recently stepped into a political storm by advocating low quality people be paid for voluntary sterilization:



He is suggesting that a ~ €5,000 bribe would be adequate I think we should consider this in Ireland. cYp
From the sort of crap you post on this site, I'd start with the likes of you..........up against a wall!!!!
 

Conor

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Patrick Bateman suggested this, but then confessed (honestly, I think) that he was trolling.

So I propose we offer a €15,000 bribe to all long term dolers if they underwent voluntary sterilization. It would represent good value for money when you consider the future cost of those children to the State.
That wouldn't work, you'd need to get them before they have kids, while they're still in school. Offer it to 15-16 year old girls. You could even lower the incentive - €5,000 buys an awful lot of sweets or iPods or drugs, or whatever the kids are into these days.
 

The Caped Cod

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Well the State already has very stringent standards regards adoption, I'd suggest these could be used



It already does regards adoption

I think it is cruel to let some people have children

cYp
Adoption regards the safety and security of someone else's child that is now in the care of the state. I wouldn't trust alot of people with my child, does that mean that I think they are unfit parents when it cmes to their own children?
Sterilisation and adoption have nothing in common. Better arguement.
 

rhonda15

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While I strongly object to the use of the words "low quality" people (Stephen Hawking of ubermensch/untermensch fame would be proud) - there are cases where a mother/father is proven to be abusive and/or is a deadbeat where i wouldn't mind seeing them giving themselves up voluntarily to having their tubes tied/ vasectomy.

Bringing even more kids into an already sh*tty situation helps no one.
 

The Caped Cod

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Patrick Bateman suggested this, but then confessed (honestly, I think) that he was trolling.


That wouldn't work, you'd need to get them before they have kids, while they're still in school. Offer it to 15-16 year old girls. You could even lower the incentive - €5,000 buys an awful lot of sweets or iPods or drugs, or whatever the kids are into these days.
So here we ago again with the biggest loser to ever grace the internet in persuit of his "research"
 

kerdasi amaq

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The opposite position of this; is to force(or insist that) "high-quality" people to have children.
 

controller

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cyberianpan you are nothing but a scumbag.............
 

cyberianpan

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The opposite position of this; is to force(or insist that) "high-quality" people to have children.
Well that we be taking a "them against us" stance ... whereas I'm more concerned with the Justice aspects here and the (miserable) future welfare of these children

Like it or lump it as JC Skinner points out above the re-introduction of abortions helped the problem in New York

Now I'm ambivalent about abortion in general so bribing them for voluntary sterilization seems better

cYp
 

Conor

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The opposite position of this; is to force(or insist that) "high-quality" people to have children.
Maybe we could freeze the seed of high quality men, sterilise the low quality men, then artificially inseminate the low quality women if they really wanted to have kids, having first been assessed for suitability, financial self-sufficiency, ideological soundness, addiction-free, etc. At least then the proles wouldn't go around making little "accidents".
 

diablo

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Sounds like something Mike Soden would write :)

It's an extreme opinion piece and the original author will be well aware that it's not going to happen BUT it does prompt a debate. I believe there is a huge issue in Ireland that people who are career social welfare recipients are reproducing at a much faster rate than people who make (or have an aspiration to make) a financial contribution to the state through work. There is a much higher probability that these children will themselves end up making a career out of the social welfare system and are making up a larger part of society due to their high reproduction rates. I would like something to be done about it as the current system incentivises people to reproduce irresponsibly.


Dawkins made an interesting point on the Late Late show recently when asked how humans might evolve. He said that the most recent change in humans is that the brain has become significantly larger over the last few centuries as the most intelligent people were reproducing more than others (I might have the time frame wrong). He posed the rhetorical question: Are the most intelligent people reproducing more today ?
 

The Caped Cod

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Well that we be taking a "them against us" stance ... whereas I'm more concerned with the Justice aspects here and the (miserable) future welfare of these children

Like it or lump it as JC Skinner points out above the re-introduction of abortions helped the problem in New York

Now I'm ambivalent about abortion in general so bribing them for voluntary sterilization seems better

cYp
Your concerned about the poor kiddies? me àrse, you'd never have suggested it if that was the case.
JC referenced a book written by Economists, who tried using economic evaluation tols to things other than the economy. This is not a proven, or even recognised science (though that in itself does not make it false).
Now look at the economy, and tell me why we would plan social welfare, population "control" etc, on one exert from a book of unproven science, and a dodgy New Zealand politician.

And if you were deemed "low quality"?;)
 

The Caped Cod

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Sounds like something Mike Soden would write :)

It's an extreme opinion piece and the original author will be well aware that it's not going to happen BUT it does prompt a debate. I believe there is a huge issue in Ireland that people who are career social welfare recipients are reproducing at a much faster rate than people who make (or have an aspiration to make) a financial contribution to the state through work. There is a much higher probability that these children will themselves end up making a career out of the social welfare system and are making up a larger part of society due to their high reproduction rates. I would like something to be done about it as the current system incentivises people to reproduce irresponsibly.


Dawkins made an interesting point on the Late Late show recently when asked how humans might evolve. He said that the most recent change in humans is that the brain has become significantly larger over the last few centuries as the most intelligent people were reproducing more than others (I might have the time frame wrong). He posed the rhetorical question: Are the most intelligent people reproducing more today ?
Did he supply any proof of that? Even some backgorund source that "may have led him to believe that"? In fact, given that contracetion is relatively new invention, I'd imagine that it was quite the opposite
 
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I know what the OP is getting at, and while it is quite shocking to see his proposals in black and white, there are times when one does just despair when one sees the same women pregnant again and again and their kids are running wild and creating havoc, or active drug abusers getting pregnant, especially when we know the baby will be born into agony from withdrawal symptoms. It is not something that will ever happen (again) one hopes, but people are getting very polarised these days, has anyone noticed? And it is a worry. We seem to be fulfilling that Mayan prophesy that that thread was about.

The thing is that the most driving force within most humans is to reproduce. China as we know has the One child per family policy, Does that work? And what happens when someone disobeys them, and that is the point other posters are making. If people won't be sterilised, what does one do? Jail them and sterilise them forcibly?

Nope. It won't work.
 
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