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payment of school and hospital chaplains?


joeclogs

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May 14, 2007
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32
Are school chaplains paid? If (as in my day) school chaplains are priests and just doing what should be part of their priestly duties anyway (ie indoctination) why should they be paid with State money? Given that the bishops and religious chair school boards of managments surely there is an issue in terms of their appointment? More importantly is the payment of priests contrary to Article 44 of the constitution in which the state guarantees not to endow any religion? Also are hospital chaplains paid? At a time of cutbacks in the public sector this would be a very good place to start....
 


corelli

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Jun 13, 2007
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4,478
Are school chaplains paid? If (as in my day) school chaplains are priests and just doing what should be part of their priestly duties anyway (ie indoctination) why should they be paid with State money? Given that the bishops and religious chair school boards of managments surely there is an issue in terms of their appointment? More importantly is the payment of priests contrary to Article 44 of the constitution in which the state guarantees not to endow any religion? Also are hospital chaplains paid? At a time of cutbacks in the public sector this would be a very good place to start....
They are paid, yes. Campaign to Separate Church & State v Minister for Education [1998] 3 IR 32. It's perfectly constitutional, unfortunately in my view.
 

west'sawake

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I'll need to check this out further, but as far as I know there is somewhat an ironic situation at play here, community schools/colleges, and possibly some VEC schools have chaplains whose salaries are paid by the State. Most Catholic Voluntary Schools do not have chaplains, and if they do,they mostly teach, and are paid as teachers,

Also, under Canon Law, only a priest should be a chaplain, and that is the way it is supposed to be and was as you say that way in your day. Now though as is the case with Catholic Institutions Chaplaincy has being laicised and in most cases secularised.

I remember going to a R.E congress/conference in a Catholic teacher training college in Dublin, and during a break in the conference I wanted to get some prayer and scripture meditation in only to find, after some effort, that the small oratory was named the quiet room, or something like that, for the occasion, and there was no sign of a tabernacle or sanctuary lamp to denote the presence of what Catholics refer to as the Blessed Sacrament. Granted the large college chapel had it but for a Catholic Religious Education conference it spoke volumes about the syncretism that is now at the heart of Catholic Education when I was sign posted to a 'Quiet Room'. or 'Quiet Place' (Next door were a few voices, in the Chaplain's office, all female).

So to assure you, Chaplains are no longer priests, (The Irish Catholic Church as usual is turning a blind eye to its own rules), They are no longer men only, there are single men and women and married men and women Chaplains. It's usage today, although in breach of Canon law, has come to mean something else. Indeed as far as I know, Mater Dei run Chapliancy courses open to all, and priests form but a small minority.

For different reasons to your own I would like to see this tightened up by the Church and State, and though some of my hours come under Chaplaincy, the State does not pay them. A Chaplain is supposed to be an advocate and witness for the Gospel and the Catechism as well as having a pastoral care role. Most are encouraged to have training as Counsellors, though again this often leads to straying into a purely secular model, which is contrary to the original sense of the role within the Church.

The only way the Church can expand the Chaplaincy outside the priesthood is through the Diaconate, which again is only for men. (Though that is not laicisation since a deacon is an ordained ministry). To summarise Chaplaincy has come to mean not that which the Catholic Church officially sees it as. The State seems happy to go along with this secular pelagian hybrid.
 
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Shilts

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May 26, 2009
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215
This has to be a joke
Please tell me my tax money is not going on this rubbish

Let all the chaplains go tomorrow or if they wan't to continue - let their gods provide for them.

The government (Labour maybe?) should then refuse to pay teachers for teaching religious educatuion in schools (30 mins per day - a big % of a school day)
These savings could then be spent on important matters and not on fairy stories.
Of all the millions wasted on useless schemes - religion is the most spectacular waste of tax payers money.
 

Old Mr Grouser

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... To summairse Chaplaincy has come to mean not that which the Catholic Church officially sees it as. The State seems happy to go along with this secular pelagian hybrid.
Thanks, Westie. I'm now a former Catholic but your post is very clear and to the point.
 

FrankSpeaks

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Apr 18, 2008
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This has to be a joke
Please tell me my tax money is not going on this rubbish

Let all the chaplains go tomorrow or if they wan't to continue - let their gods provide for them.

The government (Labour maybe?) should then refuse to pay teachers for teaching religious educatuion in schools (30 mins per day - a big % of a school day)
These savings could then be spent on important matters and not on fairy stories.
Of all the millions wasted on useless schemes - religion is the most spectacular waste of tax payers money.

I agree stop this nonsense immediately.
 

bessiebell

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May 19, 2007
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I suggest that some of the above bigots wait until they are dying in a hospital bed before campaigning for the removal of hospital chaplains. That eventuality will, of course, come to them one day - if they are lucky, that is. And, for some of them, it will be sooner than they think. They might find their hostility to Christianity somewhat lessened by the experience. I haven't heard of many people asking for a reading from the works of Richard Dawkins when on their deathbed.
 

seanad voter

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I've already been on my deathbed with a heart attack. I wanted a solicitor, not a chaplain.

(c.) P.ie
 

FrankSpeaks

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I suggest that some of the above bigots wait until they are dying in a hospital bed before campaigning for the removal of hospital chaplains. That eventuality will, of course, come to them one day - if they are lucky, that is. And, for some of them, it will be sooner than they think. They might find their hostility to Christianity somewhat lessened by the experience. I haven't heard of many people asking for a reading from the works of Richard Dawkins when on their deathbed.
That is because most people in this country have been brainwashed since birth into believing in fairy tales about powerful sky gods.
 

gatsbygirl20

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Dec 1, 2008
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Many chaplains (indeed most) are lay people. For the most part--or in my experience---they are very devoted people, always available to students and staff. Many are trained counsellers. They are invaluable in times of crisis--a death of a student, for example. They never seem to count the hours or watch the clock. It is the usual watered down, a la carte approach---with a quiet oratory where students can go to meditate, rather than a church.

For example during state exams chaplains will be available in the oratory before the exam in the morning, to calm students down, light a candle etc. Attendance is voluntary

In disadvantaged schools the presence of a quirt, steadfast, supportive adult who welcomes the students every morning is of great value. There is very little adult steadfastness or support in these students' lives. Schools can be stressful places and a kind person with a listening ear is very helpful for staff too. Of course it depends on the person, but I have found them to be excellent.

Of course the fact that they are chaplains could be a thorny issue, if you want to be pedantic about it.

But if I was cutting waste and overspend in the PS i would certainly not start with chaplains.
 

Shilts

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May 26, 2009
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I suggest that some of the above bigots wait until they are dying in a hospital bed before campaigning for the removal of hospital chaplains. That eventuality will, of course, come to them one day - if they are lucky, that is. And, for some of them, it will be sooner than they think. They might find their hostility to Christianity somewhat lessened by the experience. I haven't heard of many people asking for a reading from the works of Richard Dawkins when on their deathbed.
If they could do a little 'miracle magic' and cure me on the spot I'd be delighted to talk to them on my deathbed.
In fact why waste time with the doctors at all.
If they can't cure me then don't be wasting what precious time I've left, please.

Basically, they are selling "entrance tickets to cloud land"
Price - X amount of euro to the taxpayers

As I've quoted elsewhere:
"Go sell crazy somewhere else, we're all stocked up here"
 

eoinod

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Mar 21, 2008
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The Catholic School that I attended has had a lay chaplain for a long time.
 

eoinod

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Mar 21, 2008
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Same here, but I think religion should just be taken out of the education system all together.
We had a very troubling final two years in our school.

A younger kid died, one poor kid got Leukemia and two fellas in our year needed brain surgery (one being in a coma for over a month).

At times like these having the chaplain but also prayer services for the students in question was a great comfort even the most avowed atheists in the year appreciated them. I am not the most devoted Catholic in the world but there is something that religion can offer the education system and our youths are intelligent enough to make up their own mind as to what to believe.
 

nozzferrahhtoo

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My memory of the school Chaplain/Priest from my school in Raheny was a priest called John who let the students smoke, all ages 12 to 18, against school rules, in his „office“.

His “office” was a room that when you had to visit him was laid out with your chair right inside the door so you had to squeeze around the door to get to it, squeeze yourself into a tiny chair, and then look UP at him in his enormous chair, behind his enormous desk, with his enourmous quite spacey “office” laying open, well lit and nearly empty in a state that most Feng Shui practitioners would have wet dreams over.

I can only imagine this was all laid out to feed his ego and make you feel small, and the big empty room was designed to say “This is my space, I choose to leave it empty, and you wont be getting any of it.

His practise for providing counselling to the children was to get the nearest student to him to go into the class where the kid in need of his „help“ was currently in and have the student announce „Fr. John wants to see X” so every single person in the class new that the kid has “issues”.

I did not realise Irish Tax payers money was being used to finance this atrocity of ego feeding and institutionalised breaking of school rules. I am happier than ever that I am currently living outside Ireland and not feeding my money to this.
 

Red_93

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Mar 20, 2010
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We had a very troubling final two years in our school.

A younger kid died, one poor kid got Leukemia and two fellas in our year needed brain surgery (one being in a coma for over a month).

At times like these having the chaplain but also prayer services for the students in question was a great comfort even the most avowed atheists in the year appreciated them. I am not the most devoted Catholic in the world but there is something that religion can offer the education system and our youths are intelligent enough to make up their own mind as to what to believe.
Oh don't get me wrong, there needs to be some sort of guidance and pastoral care, I just think this thing is the job of counsellors.
 

CookieMonster

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Feb 19, 2005
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I suggest that some of the above bigots wait until they are dying in a hospital bed before campaigning for the removal of hospital chaplains. That eventuality will, of course, come to them one day - if they are lucky, that is. And, for some of them, it will be sooner than they think. They might find their hostility to Christianity somewhat lessened by the experience. I haven't heard of many people asking for a reading from the works of Richard Dawkins when on their deathbed.
Why give a dying person a pain in the ar*e too?
 

nozzferrahhtoo

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Jun 2, 2009
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I suggest that some of the above bigots wait until they are dying in a hospital bed before campaigning for the removal of hospital chaplains. They might find their hostility to Christianity somewhat lessened by the experience.
I have never understood the obsession of theists with the death bed. I am told over and over about people who had “death bed conversions” and quite often when I research them myself they turn out to be lies anyway.

However, even if they WERE true, what does this say about the claim that there is a god?

To me it seems what they are saying is “Our claims are so ridiculous, so unsubstantiated, and so unbelievable, that you literally have to be lying in a bed dying, with all the mental and physical and emotional stress associated with that, for your critical faculties to be reduced to the level where you are going to think any of it is true”.

I honestly can find no other meaning in the death bed obsessions. Maybe someone can enlighten me.


The presence of these people in schools and hospitals to me however speaks of only one thing. “Get em while they are vulnerable”. The schools are just “get em while young” and the hospitals are “get em while they are emotional, desperate and alone”.

This religion is attracted to vulnerability like flies to dog crap.
 

CookieMonster

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If these chaplin things are PRIESTS too I think we should beat them with a giant non-religious crucifix, kill them in the face and burn them using atheistic petrol.
 

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