PBP ruling out cooperation with SF ?

PO'Neill

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Political party's will always have rivalry, but with the upcoming proposal of left cooperation with this proposed left development Movement4Change by Brendan Ogle etc are PBP (and probably by extension Sol/AAA) already ruling out cooperation with SF ?

"Over the past few months, there have been strong signs that Sinn Féin is trying to position itself closer to the centre ground in the South..... People Before Profit is urging Sinn Fein to pull back from this strategy before it is too late. In the meantime, it will work with its allies in Solidarity to develop a genuine left that is committed to a full challenge to the political establishment North and South."

Why Are Sinn Fein Losing Their Radical Edge? - People Before Profit
 


PO'Neill

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As for some of PBP's accusations, they say that SF " refused to support the citizens’ assembly recommendation on the Repeal of the Eight Amendment because it is too radical. "

While SF made it clear " while SF stated publicly the reason for not supporting the PBP bill was that the bill was fundamentally flawed as it did not address the issue of criminality and while it reduced the penalties for women who have an abortion it also reduced the penalties for back street abortionists who do harm to pregnant women." Clearly the Trots been the Trots as usual and spending more time misrepresenting SF than FG/FF/LP.

http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/43817

Also PBP state "The party (SF) has also refused to call for the immediate rescinding of the Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Act. This legislation allows the government to change the incremental wage scales of public sector workers at the stroke of a pen. Sinn Fein supports an ‘orderly unwinding’"

So I googled and I wouldn't quote the whole debate but found David Cullinane stating "I shall make one final point. I hope that FEMPI - and the Minister's emergency powers under the legislation - is finally taken off the Statute Book. I do not believe we should be using these powers again. We should be negotiating with trade unions, not involving ourselves in unilateral action whereby a Minister can simply cut the pay of public servants."
https://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2017-06-29a.322

And as for "It (SF) has opposed legislation to legalise cannabis for medical use at a Dáil Committee." SF didn't support it because they concurred with the Dail committee that " The committee’s scrutiny report argues there is still a shortage of scientific peer-reviewed evidence on the safety and effectiveness of cannabinoid treatments for medical conditions, despite initial encouraging medicinal possibilities." https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/health-committee-rejects-bill-to-legalise-medical-cannabis-1.3152230

So because SF didn't support two bills brought forward by PBP due to legal flaws, that makes SF according to the Trots "position itself closer to the centre" while claiming SF refused to support the immediate rescinding of the Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Act is just bullsh!t as can be seen in the quote of David Cullinane.
 
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Sync

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The more electable SF become the further away PBP will move.
 

Mercurial

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As for some of PBP's accusations, they say that SF " refused to support the citizens’ assembly recommendation on the Repeal of the Eight Amendment because it is too radical. " While SF made it clear " while SF stated publicly the reason for not supporting the PBP bill was " that the bill was fundamentally flawed as it did not address the issue of criminality and while it reduced the penalties for women who have an abortion it also reduced the penalties for back street abortionists who do harm to pregnant women." Clearly the Trots been the Trots as usual and spending more time misrepresenting SF than FG/FF/LP.

http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/43817

Is the objection supposed to be that SF didn't support the Citizen Assembly recommendations, or a particular bill proposed by PBP?
 

Marcos the black

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So FF are the only party that will do business with SF. Good to know
 

Mercurial

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The more electable SF become the further away PBP will move.
Assuming that what it means to be electable doesn't change over time.

Something that has less chance of happening if parties like SF slide towards the centre.
 

PO'Neill

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The more electable SF become the further away PBP will move.
I can agree to a point, SF have fully checked and verified budgets etc by the Dept of Finance, the Trots make it up as they go along with aspirational slogans etc However that can only take the Trots so far, as Gerry Carroll and Eammon McCann found out in the Assembly elections where incredibly SF on the first count came in 1,2,3,4 :shock: and Carroll at 5 with McCann losing in Derry. But I think this is bad form out of the PBP Trots, already throwing a spanner it seems into this proposed left development Movement4Change by Brendan Ogle and others.

Assuming that what it means to be electable doesn't change over time.

Something that has less chance of happening if parties like SF slide towards the centre.
The poor old Shinners, to FG/FF/LP they claim SF are a party of the hard left, to the Trots they are a party of the right :)
 

PBP voter

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I can agree to a point, SF have fully checked and verified budgets etc by the Dept of Finance, the Trots make it up as they go along with aspirational slogans etc However that can only take the Trots so far, as Gerry Carroll and Eammon McCann found out in the Assembly elections where incredibly SF on the first count came in 1,2,3,4 :shock: and Carroll at 5 with McCann losing in Derry. But I think this is bad form out of the PBP Trots, already throwing a spanner it seems into this proposed left development Movement4Change by Brendan Ogle and others.
That means very little.

Any party could propose a top rate of tax of 80% and it could be verified and checked by the DOF. In theory it would bring in X more to the economy but in reality it would destroy it.
 

PO'Neill

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Is the objection supposed to be that SF didn't support the Citizen Assembly recommendations, or a particular bill proposed by PBP?
No, because SF didint' support the bill saying that PBP refused to amend their Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act because SF claimed the bill was "fundamentally flawed as it did not address the issue of criminality and while it reduced the penalties for women who have an abortion it also reduced the penalties for back street abortionists who do harm to pregnant women."
 

cricket

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The alphabets would run a mile from ever holding office, as it would mean making decisions and accepting responsibility for them. Their only ambition is to be a protest group, especially if funded by the state through election of reps.
The shinners claim to be radical but, in fact, they're well underway on a journey to being in office in the south as well as the north.
 

PO'Neill

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That means very little.

Any party could propose a top rate of tax of 80% and it could be verified and checked by the DOF. In theory it would bring in X more to the economy but in reality it would destroy it.
So rocket scientist, can you get the link showing SF proposed a top rate of tax of 80% ?? The DoF cost a SF budget like they do a govt budget i.e. what's feasible under the prevailing circumstances.

So FF are the only party that will do business with SF. Good to know
Fianna Fáil TDs told to stop talking about coalition with SF
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/fianna-fáil-tds-told-to-stop-talking-about-coalition-with-sf-1.3213444
 

tokkie

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Political party's will always have rivalry, but with the upcoming proposal of left cooperation with this proposed left development Movement4Change by Brendan Ogle etc are PBP (and probably by extension Sol/AAA) already ruling out cooperation with SF ?

"Over the past few months, there have been strong signs that Sinn Féin is trying to position itself closer to the centre ground in the South..... People Before Profit is urging Sinn Fein to pull back from this strategy before it is too late. In the meantime, it will work with its allies in Solidarity to develop a genuine left that is committed to a full challenge to the political establishment North and South."

Why Are Sinn Fein Losing Their Radical Edge? - People Before Profit
Sinn Fein aren't really a left wing party.
 

Sync

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That means very little.

Any party could propose a top rate of tax of 80% and it could be verified and checked by the DOF. In theory it would bring in X more to the economy but in reality it would destroy it.
Did PBP submitted their costed budget plans last election?
 

Fullforward

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It is good news that the (This weeks name is... ) Party / Group have ruled out working with SF at this point as they normally wait until the show is on the road and time and effort have been made before they derail it.
 

Fullforward

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Did PBP submitted their costed budget plans last election?
It was perfect except for the section that dealt with Nationalising Toyota.
 

Marcos the black

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So rocket scientist, can you get the link showing SF proposed a top rate of tax of 80% ?? The DoF cost a SF budget like they do a govt budget i.e. what's feasible under the prevailing circumstances.



Fianna Fáil TDs told to stop talking about coalition with SF
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/fianna-fáil-tds-told-to-stop-talking-about-coalition-with-sf-1.3213444
So.. FF TD's have been told to stop talking about it.. it's not an official policy yet. When will it be announced officially?
 

sic transit

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So rocket scientist, can you get the link showing SF proposed a top rate of tax of 80% ?? The DoF cost a SF budget like they do a govt budget i.e. what's feasible under the prevailing circumstances.
I think they just show that the maths adds up, not how feasible it is. Feasibility is about politics, not a DoF purview.
 


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