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Peace Is Not The Absence Of Terrorism, But The Presence Of Justice...


between the bridges

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Messages
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A GROUP representing victims of the Troubles has launched a project which aims to get justice for those who suffered at the hands of paramilitaries.

Called Justice for Innocent Victims of Terrorism (JIVT Ltd), among the services the organisation will offer is legal advice for those who may have a civil case they could take to court over the murder of their relatives.

And at the launch yesterday, tales of the extreme violence meted out to innocent men and women by the IRA were delivered in chilling detail
“There is an eerie silence, dust everywhere. I can still remember the choking sensation from the dust and the rubble.

“I clearly remember looking to my side, where my dad had been standing next to me – his decapitated body was lying at my feet. I knew straightaway he was dead.
Asked whether they would be largely dealing with those from a Protestant/unionist background, he said: “Largely so, although there are a growing number of families from a Catholic tradition who are involved.

“It’s not about a denominational issue for us. It’s about those who stayed on the right side of the law, and those who act as terrorists.”
Troubles victims begin new search for justice - Headlines - Belfast Newsletter

Troubles victims stories: Stephen Gault - Headlines - Belfast Newsletter

Troubles victims stories: Michael Gallagher - Headlines - Belfast Newsletter

Troubles victims stories: Ann Travers - Headlines - Belfast Newsletter

As a society we have yet to deal with the victims legacy of the troubles, in the aftermath of the GFA those on both 'sides' that committed terror acts were released and those that controlled terror were rewarded, lauded, elected and deemed peacemakers.
The vast majority of victims were air brushed out of history bar the multiple murder atrocities or a few headline individuals. Many feel forgotten and ignored their losses compounded by a lack of justice, the reality is we are to far down the line and have to many former protagonists in influential positions for any wide scale legal justice to be achieved. Anyway constantly re opening cans of worms has no future (other than on p.ie!!) but at the same-time something has to be done across the board rather than piecemeal. For too long the focus has been on those who did rather than those who it was done to.

I believe that we as a society owe all the victims families some form of recognition the question is what?

my thoughts...

1. To remove the hierarchy of victims, referr to 'all those killed' or 'all deaths as a result of the troubles' etc.

2. compensation, I doubt many of the families care about money but a one off equal payment across the board would be something tangible and perhaps the chance to double the amount if given to a charity.

3. Memorial, NI is coming down with official and non official memorials, but i would suggest something large and visual comprising of individual items each representing someone who was killed. I would have no names because of the problems arising you would have the shankill bomber and butcher alongside their victims, etc.

4. Reflection, pick one day or week (if possible one without signification to any side) ask all churches schools sports workplaces etc to hold two minutes silence for 'all deaths as a result of the troubles' . It would be a once only event rather than annual.

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/sutton/
 
Last edited:

theloner

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Mar 24, 2011
Messages
9,658
I agree with much of your OP but curiously, why are your only three linked examples victims of republican violence? Don't you think you could have linked at least one victim of loyalist or British state violence to make the OP a little more attractive and provoke a debate that may be construed as constructive or at least balanced?

This quote from your first link speaks volumes about this new victims group:

Asked whether they would be largely dealing with those from a Protestant/unionist background, he said: “Largely so".

Your OPs are improving BTW, genuinely.
 

ItsEvolution

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3,490
Why are the above stories all one sided? So bored of hearing this it's like they get satisfaction out of it, loads of really bad stuff happened committed by all sides there done get over it.
 

eoghanacht

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Apr 18, 2006
Messages
33,340
I agree with much of your OP but curiously, why are your only three linked examples victims of republican violence? Don't you think you could have linked at least one victim of loyalist or British state violence to make the OP a little more attractive and provoke a debate that may be construed as constructive or at least balanced?

This quote from your first link speaks volumes about this new victims group:

Asked whether they would be largely dealing with those from a Protestant/unionist background, he said: “Largely so".

Your OPs are improving BTW, genuinely.
Why are the above stories all one sided? So bored of hearing this it's like they get satisfaction out of it, loads of really bad stuff happened committed by all sides there done get over it.


Bit much to be talking about hierarchy of victims then only list victims of Republican violence.

Aiden McAnespie is spinning in his grave.


Other than that reconciliation of any kind is to be welcomed
 

Mickeymac

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Jun 30, 2010
Messages
38,169
Why are the above stories all one sided? So bored of hearing this it's like they get satisfaction out of it, loads of really bad stuff happened committed by all sides there done get over it.


All to do with money pal, their reps were even begging Countries in the middle of a civil war for compensation.
 

james toney

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Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
15,978
Why are the above stories all one sided? So bored of hearing this it's like they get satisfaction out of it, loads of really bad stuff happened committed by all sides there done get over it.
He does,and just watch him derail his own thread later,With bigotry and knuckledragging. 100% guaranteed.
Maybe it's down to Attention deficit disorder on his part,or sniffing glue.
 

Global Justice

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Joined
Aug 4, 2011
Messages
13,520
Given that it was the loyalists and the RUC and the failure of unionist misrule to install a fair, equal and democratic society that start kick-started the 'troubles' this is a good gesture by our resident Orange man, though I do, as others have noticed, have concerns about the validity of his motivations after his one-sided biased hierarchy of victims.
 

between the bridges

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Sep 21, 2011
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45,651
Gents the article and links are all on the one article, my comments are separate to that article i mistakenly assumed people would be able to differentiate!!

I made my comments on a current article i mention having reference to every single person killed and yet that is unsatisfactory to some!! (shock not!!)

Is it really any wonder i rarely post anything that i take seriously? (i know many take my posts seriously, that just adds to my enjoyment)

Yes baiting you all is fun and rather easy but being unable to judge comments on there merits, rather than your preconceptions, of the poster is all your own doing...
 

eoghanacht

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Apr 18, 2006
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Do you not agree it's a bit much to be talking about 'hierarchy of victims' then only include victims of Republican violence?
 

between the bridges

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Do you not agree it's a bit much to be talking about 'hierarchy of victims' then only include victims of Republican violence?
Are you really that thick?
 

between the bridges

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Joined
Sep 21, 2011
Messages
45,651
Do you not agree it's a bit much to be talking about 'hierarchy of victims' then only include victims of Republican violence?
My comments...[
As a society we have yet to deal with the victims legacy of the troubles, in the aftermath of the GFA those on both 'sides' that committed terror acts were released and those that controlled terror were rewarded, lauded, elected and deemed peacemakers.
The vast majority of victims were air brushed out of history bar the multiple murder atrocities or a few headline individuals. Many feel forgotten and ignored their losses compounded by a lack of justice, the reality is we are to far down the line and have to many former protagonists in influential positions for any wide scale legal justice to be achieved. Anyway constantly re opening cans of worms has no future (other than on p.ie!!) but at the same-time something has to be done across the board rather than piecemeal. For too long the focus has been on those who did rather than those who it was done to.

I believe that we as a society owe all the victims families some form of recognition the question is what?

my thoughts...

1. To remove the hierarchy of victims, referr to 'all those killed' or 'all deaths as a result of the troubles' etc.

2. compensation, I doubt many of the families care about money but a one off equal payment across the board would be something tangible and perhaps the chance to double the amount if given to a charity.

3. Memorial, NI is coming down with official and non official memorials, but i would suggest something large and visual comprising of individual items each representing someone who was killed. I would have no names because of the problems arising you would have the shankill bomber and butcher alongside their victims, etc.

4. Reflection, pick one day or week (if possible one without signification to any side) ask all churches schools sports workplaces etc to hold two minutes silence for 'all deaths as a result of the troubles' . It would be a once only event rather than annual.
is it any wonder i asked

Originally Posted by between the bridges
Are you really that thick?
 

eoghanacht

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33,340
Yet the only ones to get a special mention were victims of Republican violence and you missed the reference to Aiden McAnespie, who's anniversary it is today.

Yeah you're all about parity :roll:
 

theloner

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I don't think you made any 'proddy bigoted' comments but you are acting quite the queen over a little constructive criticism BTB. :p
 

between the bridges

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Joined
Sep 21, 2011
Messages
45,651
Yet the only ones to get a special mention were victims of Republican violence and you missed the reference to Aiden McAnespie, who's anniversary it is today.

Yeah you're all about parity :roll:
Did I give anyone a special mention? Silly moi, I assumed even amoebas like yourself can tell the difference between a quoted article
(highlighted in quotes and links provided)
and a personal comment? (ya know the bit were i gave MY opinion)
As for parity I have never claimed to be anything other than what i am PUL, OO, and Bandsman, who shock horror is less narrow minded , bigoted and sectarian than the majority of muppets on here...











































and yes I can provide references from big Ian to prove that...
 

between the bridges

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Sep 21, 2011
Messages
45,651
I don't think you made any 'proddy bigoted' comments but you are acting quite the queen over a little constructive criticism BTB. :p
you will find at least one poster did...
 

irish-italian

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Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Messages
276
Troubles victims begin new search for justice - Headlines - Belfast Newsletter

Troubles victims stories: Stephen Gault - Headlines - Belfast Newsletter

Troubles victims stories: Michael Gallagher - Headlines - Belfast Newsletter

Troubles victims stories: Ann Travers - Headlines - Belfast Newsletter

As a society we have yet to deal with the victims legacy of the troubles, in the aftermath of the GFA those on both 'sides' that committed terror acts were released and those that controlled terror were rewarded, lauded, elected and deemed peacemakers.
The vast majority of victims were air brushed out of history bar the multiple murder atrocities or a few headline individuals. Many feel forgotten and ignored their losses compounded by a lack of justice, the reality is we are to far down the line and have to many former protagonists in influential positions for any wide scale legal justice to be achieved. Anyway constantly re opening cans of worms has no future (other than on p.ie!!) but at the same-time something has to be done across the board rather than piecemeal. For too long the focus has been on those who did rather than those who it was done to.

I believe that we as a society owe all the victims families some form of recognition the question is what?

my thoughts...

1. To remove the hierarchy of victims, referr to 'all those killed' or 'all deaths as a result of the troubles' etc.

2. compensation, I doubt many of the families care about money but a one off equal payment across the board would be something tangible and perhaps the chance to double the amount if given to a charity.

3. Memorial, NI is coming down with official and non official memorials, but i would suggest something large and visual comprising of individual items each representing someone who was killed. I would have no names because of the problems arising you would have the shankill bomber and butcher alongside their victims, etc.

4. Reflection, pick one day or week (if possible one without signification to any side) ask all churches schools sports workplaces etc to hold two minutes silence for 'all deaths as a result of the troubles' . It would be a once only event rather than annual.

CAIN: Sutton Index of Deaths - menu page
To be honest one of those people who claims he is a victim is anything but. The people who know him know that the "poor me" persona he plays out in the media should be "god help those who I have wronged in the worst way possible"
 

between the bridges

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Joined
Sep 21, 2011
Messages
45,651
To be honest one of those people who claims he is a victim is anything but. The people who know him know that the "poor me" persona he plays out in the media should be "god help those who I have wronged in the worst way possible"
I'd say you could have that conversation about any number of 'victim's' or indeed 'legitimate' targets, but that isn't the issue...
 
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