Pearse Doherty and David McWilliams "Burn the bondholders"

sport02

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Sinn Fein's finance spokesperson Pearse Doherty says not one red cent should be paid to the gamblers of the troubled Irish bank, Anglo.

Why should this bank cripple our people, our nation, I agree with Pearse, and I agree with David McWilliams that we have got it wrong.
David McWilliams says there will be a chapter in finance books in ten years called "Ireland, how not to do it that way"

Kazakhstan did it this year and are doing particularly well, see below.
Restructuring banks: Don't start from here | The Economist

Also worth noting all the main parties agreed to the four year plan, while Sinn Fein argued a six year plan, now the plan has changed to a five year plan.
 


Sierra

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Why did Sinn Fein support the bank-bailout by voting for its approval if they wanted to burn the bondholders? I thought Labour were the only party in Dail Eireann to vote against the guarantee.
 

sport02

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Why did Sinn Fein support the bank-bailout if they wanted to burn the bondholders? I thought Labour were the only party in Dail Eireann to vote against the guarantee.
The banks mislead all the parties, remember the cheapest bailout said by Lenihan, as soon as the reality became clear, they argued differently.
I don't see the problem in the change of stance to be honest.
 

ppcoyle

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Sinn Fein's finance spokesperson Pearse Doherty says not one red cent should be paid to the gamblers of the troubled Irish bank, Anglo.

Why should this bank cripple our people, our nation, I agree with Pearse, and I agree with David McWilliams that we have got it wrong.
David McWilliams says there will be a chapter in finance books in ten years called "Ireland, how not to do it that way"

Kazakhstan did it and are doing particularly well, see below.
Restructuring banks: Don't start from here | The Economist

Also worth noting all the main parties agreed to the four year plan, while Sinn Fein argued a six year plan, now the plan has changed to a five year plan.
On the other hand the former President of the Argentinian Central Bank Martin Redrado talked to Bloomberg today about lessons from Argentina's debt crisis and the situation in Europe. He spoke with Andrea Catherwood on Bloomberg Television's "The Pulse" and warned against default:

Redrado Interview - Video - Bloomberg

The real danger of listening to novices and self styled experts are many. The situation that the country is facing into has many unknowns and uncertainties. As Redrado points out it is the most vulnerable who suffer in default sitautions. Expertise in an area such as economic forecasting, as measured by repeated success in forecasting is not very common. I would rather follow the suggestions of Karl Whelan on Prime Time tonight than that of Pearse Doherty or David McWilliams. We should not play poker with the economic and social well being of the most vulnerable sections of our society. It seems to me that even if the bank senior debt problem was not there we face a major funding problem with respect to the current budget deficit. Default on the senior bank debt, which is now unfortunately now our soverign debt, would have an impact on our ability to cover the deficit funding problem. Hopefully a new government will be able to renegotiate the interest rate and time period of the bailout package.

Let's get on as well with improving our cost base in both the private and public sectors and thereby help drive export led growth.
 

king5494

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The banks mislead all the parties, remember the cheapest bailout said by Lenihan, as soon as the reality became clear, they argued differently.
I don't see the problem in the change of stance to be honest.
The banks and the Government lied and said it was just a liquidity crisis and they weren't insolvent in any way .Why would you not vote for it if you perceived you were being told the truth.

They lied ,again and again and are still lying .

WILL YEE ALL WAKE UP.
 

Grumpy Jack

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It's too late now to burn any senior bondholders - the consequences for Ireland and the euro would be dire and probably irreversible. FF have seen to that.

It's very easy for the likes of Doherty and Sinn Fein to make such glib statements given they will never have to deal with the problem.

If Doherty ended up as Minister for Finance tomorrow, by the end of the day he would be telling us why we couldn't actually burn any bondholders after the harsh realities were pointed out to him by civil servants, Patrick Honohan, the ECB and Dave, Nicolas and Angela.

Pure populist BS from Doherty - he has a future in Gilmore's Labour after the next Shinner split.
 

dent

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It's too late now to burn any senior bondholders - the consequences for Ireland and the euro would be dire and probably irreversible. FF have seen to that.

It's very easy for the likes of Doherty and Sinn Fein to make such glib statements given they will never have to deal with the problem.

If Doherty ended up as Minister for Finance tomorrow, by the end of the day he would be telling us why we couldn't actually burn any bondholders after the harsh realities were pointed out to him by civil servants, Patrick Honohan, the ECB and Dave, Nicolas and Angela.

Pure populist BS from Doherty - he has a future in Gilmore's Labour after the next Shinner split.
Perhaps someone will confirm but as i understand it,

  1. The Irish Government paid €55bn back to Bank Bondholders, last September, using money borrowed from the ECB specifically for that purpose.
  2. There are still Bank bondholders out there to be paid back as the debt falls due.
The fact is

  1. The Irish govt meekly obeyed the orders of the EU to accept that €55bn, to pay the bondholders, when the correct course of action was to let convert that debt into equity. This is the EU/ECB's doing and they will have to take that hit.
  2. The remaining bank bondholders should get nothing as well, as it isn't our sovereign debt. This again is the EU's lookout if they want to do so.
  3. There is NO question on reneging on our National sovereign debt, that is unrelated to the banks.
  4. This should lead to a structured default.
 

eoghanacht

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It's too late now to burn any senior bondholders - the consequences for Ireland and the euro would be dire and probably irreversible. FF have seen to that.

It's very easy for the likes of Doherty and Sinn Fein to make such glib statements given they will never have to deal with the problem.

If Doherty ended up as Minister for Finance tomorrow, by the end of the day he would be telling us why we couldn't actually burn any bondholders after the harsh realities were pointed out to him by civil servants, Patrick Honohan, the ECB and Dave, Nicolas and Angela.

Pure populist BS from Doherty - he has a future in Gilmore's Labour after the next Shinner split.


I suppose this fella has a SF agenda too............

One of the world's largest private buyers of government bonds says the private sector should bear some of the cost of financial rescues such as for the Irish Republic.

The comments came from Mohamed El-Erian, chief executive of Pimco, which holds investments worth $1.3 trillion.

"It is unreasonable to expect the Irish taxpayer... to bear all the costs,"

BBC News - Pimco boss: Pain of rescues 'should be shared'
 

gatsbygirl20

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Joan Burton patting the newbie Doherty on the hand and trying to get him to see the realpolitik---and also putting clear blue water between Labour and the Shinners, who every interviewer is insisting are closer in policy than Labour and Fine Gael

Doherty: "Burn the bondholders"

Burton: "Oh, I would not use such an INCENDIARY (ouch!) term as "burn", Pearse. Lets NEGOTIATE..."
 

eoghanacht

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Perhaps someone will confirm but as i understand it,

  1. The Irish Government paid €55bn back to Bank Bondholders, last September, using money borrowed from the ECB specifically for that purpose.
  2. There are still Bank bondholders out there to be paid back as the debt falls due.
The fact is

  1. The Irish govt meekly obeyed the orders of the EU to accept that €55bn, to pay the bondholders, when the correct course of action was to let convert that debt into equity. This is the EU/ECB's doing and they will have to take that hit.
  2. The remaining bank bondholders should get nothing as well, as it isn't our sovereign debt. This again is the EU's lookout if they want to do so.
  3. There is NO question on reneging on our National sovereign debt, that is unrelated to the banks.
  4. This should lead to a structured default.

Yep thats about sums it up. It should also be noted that the pressure coming from the ECB is a direct result of bad investments by large european banks who by and large bank roll the ECB. They are basically loaning us money so we can pay them back with the money they loaned us earlier (with interest ofcourse) in the hope that it staves off contagion. So the irish taxpayer is being phucked twice.

Fact is we can't pay it back sooner rather than later the voonomic house of cards will fall. Best we look after or own little house now because it's going to get a hole lot worse.
 

Halo

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I suppose this fella has a SF agenda too............

One of the world's largest private buyers of government bonds says the private sector should bear some of the cost of financial rescues such as for the Irish Republic.

The comments came from Mohamed El-Erian, chief executive of Pimco, which holds investments worth $1.3 trillion.

"It is unreasonable to expect the Irish taxpayer... to bear all the costs,"

BBC News - Pimco boss: Pain of rescues 'should be shared'


he's a provo hack that fella mohammad, id say he smuggled guns for them in the 70's probably with ferris
 

eoghanacht

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he's a provo hack that fella mohammad, id say he smuggled guns for them in the 70's probably with ferris
A sleeper ;)
 

GDPR

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It's too late now to burn any senior bondholders - the consequences for Ireland and the euro would be dire and probably irreversible. FF have seen to that.
So, tell us, when would it not have been the case that "the consequences for Ireland and the euro would be dire and probably irreversible"
 

Winalot

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Why did Sinn Fein support the bank-bailout by voting for its approval if they wanted to burn the bondholders? I thought Labour were the only party in Dail Eireann to vote against the guarantee.
Is this true; did Sinn Féin support the bailout of Anglo Irish Bank?
 

Halo

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So, tell us, when would it not have been the case that "the consequences for Ireland and the euro would be dire and probably irreversible"
If Ireland decided that they were not paying back the fools who leant their money to another load of fools in a privately run bank the euro would near collapse? Ah come on and anyway if it did collapse its not our fault that german pension funds or whatever give the money to seanie and co.
Default will come if we do pay the banks, thats the problem and the banks will be paid then and when we default on our national sovereign debt leaving us hung out to dry.
 

CarnivalOfAction

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Joan Burton patting the newbie Doherty on the hand and trying to get him to see the realpolitik---and also putting clear blue water between Labour and the Shinners, who every interviewer is insisting are closer in policy than Labour and Fine Gael

Doherty: "Burn the bondholders"

Burton: "Oh, I would not use such an INCENDIARY (ouch!) term as "burn", Pearse. Lets NEGOTIATE..."
Bout as witty as the fashionista's 3 bags in grafton St:oops:
 

Halo

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Is this true; did Sinn Féin support the bailout of Anglo Irish Bank?
We were told the banks were capitalsied and that the bank guarantee was only to stop a run on the banks. In many ways sinn fein were right to support the guarantee as why have arun on good solid irish banks???
We then learned that the banls were not capitalised and that the guarantee 100% covered the bondholders as well.

Sinn fein roughly two weeks after came out and changed their views.
 

goosebump

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If Ireland decided that they were not paying back the fools who leant their money to another load of fools in a privately run bank the euro would near collapse? Ah come on and anyway if it did collapse its not our fault that german pension funds or whatever give the money to seanie and co.
Default will come if we do pay the banks, thats the problem and the banks will be paid then and when we default on our national sovereign debt leaving us hung out to dry.

Its nothing to do with the euro collapsing.

It has everything to do with our other banks collapsing.

Labour will be in Government within 12 weeks. Let's see how much 'negotiating' they do.
 

GDPR

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If Ireland decided that they were not paying back the fools who leant their money to another load of fools in a privately run bank the euro would near collapse? Ah come on ....
Well, the ECB thinks so, the EU thinks so and we have markets that go to 10% when someone suggests that in 3 years time bonds taken out after that date only MIGHT suffer that fate, but maybe you know best.
 

Winalot

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We were told the banks were capitalsied and that the bank guarantee was only to stop a run on the banks. In many ways sinn fein were right to support the guarantee as why have arun on good solid irish banks???
We then learned that the banls were not capitalised and that the guarantee 100% covered the bondholders as well.

Sinn fein roughly two weeks after came out and changed their views.
This is scary. It is sobering to realize that Sinn Féin believed it was a good idea to bail out Anglo Irish. Shame on them.
I guess this leaves us with only Labour to support in the coming election.
 


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