Pence: who is he and will he be the real power in a Trump administration?

petaljam

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There's been a lot of speculation about what a Trump presidency will be like, but there are signs that he's not someone who genuinely wants to do the work of being president. His son is said to have offered the position of VP to John Kasich saying explicitly that it would be a uniquely powerful position this time, because Mr Trump would be too busy 'MAGA' to actually do any nuts and bolts "presiding". If that's the verb.

So what should we really expect from a Trump-Pence presidency? More of Trump or more of Pence, and if the latter, what will that be like?

What do we know about Pence? Mike Pence
Well, unlike Trump, he actually does have a record as a legislator. That may not be a good thing in this case though :

Think Trump Is Scary? Check Out Mike Pence On The Issues. | The Huffington Post

A few things at random that strike me about him :
He's an evangelical Christian who doesn't accept evolution : VP Elect Mike Pence does not accept evolution : here's why that matters

Allegedly also someone who wants gay conversion therapy to be considered as a valid therapy (TBF I can't work out how accurate that particular allegation is)
Mike Pence : gay conversion therapy

And of course abortion : Indiana Gov. Mike Pence signed a law this year that mandated funerals for fetuses - Vox

As governor of Indiana his latest pro life action has been to sign a law that makes it mandatory for any woman suffering a miscarriage, even at a few weeks of pregnancy, to bring the remains into a clinic or hospital and have a "proper" funeral for it.
Without wishing to go all TMI, that isn't always easy or even possible for some women, and is likely to be fairly traumatic in some cases.

The wording of the burial provision meant that technically, even if a woman had a miscarriage at eight weeks of pregnancy at home, she would have to keep the blood and tissue, take it to a hospital or clinic, and have it buried or cremated by a funeral home.
What have I missed?

And what is likely to be the legacy of a Pence/Trump administration, and also will the Republican Party help or hinder it?
 


Erudite Caveman

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This administration will be the dog that caught the car. Pence might specialise in GOP base nuttery, but the Donald isn't going to let anyone else run the show.
 

Zapped(CAPITALISMROTS)

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Pence is the real deal. Extreme right-wing views and comes across as reasonable, which makes him even more dangerous.
 

Socratus O' Pericles

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Roe v Wade is in serious danger now.
 

petaljam

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This administration will be the dog that caught the car.
Indeed, although UK Eurosceptics seem to have beaten them to it, and are still trying to cope with the crush injuries.


Pence might specialise in GOP base nuttery, but the Donald isn't going to let anyone else run the show.
This is what I'm wondering too - will he lose interest and move on, or will he be unable to stop meddling in spite of not being interested enough to do the footslogging? That could be good or bad though, depending on how he gets on with Pence.
 

petaljam

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Roe v Wade is in serious danger now.
I think that's a real possibility, given the number of SC judges likely to be nominated in the next four years.
Except that Trump was actually pro-choice for years, and almost certainly doesn't care either way, the pro life conversion was only so as to fit into the Republican Party. So if it's likely to be a real problem, as it will (we've seen what happens in countries where there is a genuine ban on abortion, and not many people are really willing to go back there, no matter how they pretend otherwise) will he really let a young earther make that his legacy?
 

GDPR

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Well in theory, the office of the Vice-President isnt worth a pitcher of warm piss, as LBJ once snarled, and that was back when the Veep still had the casting vote in the legislature, but he was the right man in the wrong place at the end. I suppose if you are assuming it is another case of Dick Cheney, then he could be pulling the strings alright. Certainly he is more deeply embedded in and acceptable to the GOP than Trump butDonald is more of a bully than Bush was. Nous verrons.

Side issue - there are many more things to worry about with Pence than just his attitude to Pies three fetishes, abortion (for or against), LGBTs (for or against) climate change (for or against).

As governor of Indiana, which he badly wanted out of he had f*ucked things up so grossly, he signed legislation which:

1. gave huge tax cuts to corporations and high income individuals which other Republicans had nixed in their States
2. capped the minimum wage and revoked other employee benefits
3. set off a cascade of Union busting regulations
4 boosted education privatisation schemes
5 issued a "clearly discriminatory" order barred by a federal judge on resettlement of Syrian refugees
6. tried to introduce a State funded news service which would publish pre-written news stories straight from his office and

7. diverted Medicaid money to shore up his budget when it collapsed.

Hes dirty.
 

GDPR

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This is what I'm wondering too - will he lose interest and move on, or will he be unable to stop meddling in spite of not being interested enough to do the footslogging? That could be good or bad though, depending on how he gets on with Pence.
He picked Pence in order to win over the Evangelical vote which were ambigious about him due to his moral failings.
 
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Indeed, although UK Eurosceptics seem to have beaten them to it, and are still trying to cope with the crush injuries.



This is what I'm wondering too - will he lose interest and move on, or will he be unable to stop meddling in spite of not being interested enough to do the footslogging? That could be good or bad though, depending on how he gets on with Pence.
Seems to me that the law on disposal of foetal remains was aimed more at abortion clinics such as those operated by Planned Parenthood, who displayed a spectularly inhumane attitude to their disposal, not to mention their disregard for both women and foetuses in their altering the abortion procedures to obtain good quality foetal tissue specimens. A well intentioned initiative that was not properly legislated for.
 

Erudite Caveman

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Roe v Wade is in serious danger now.
Trump isn't a pro-lifer. He's either pro-choice or neutral. So that leaves the rest - Congress and a new appointee to the Supreme Court. It wouldn't be the first time that Republicans had those and didn't overturn it. I'm betting it stays.
 

GabhaDubh

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He picked Pence in order to win over the Evangelical vote which were ambigious about him due to his moral failings.
Which netted the Trump campaign 81% of Evangelical voters, actually higher than President Reagan.
 

petaljam

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He will blow whichever way convenience dictates on that issue. He has probably paid for loads of them anyway.
I get the clear impression he'll blow whatever way suits him on just about any issue. And I share your suspicions about his likely personal experience too. But Pence is the real thing I think : anyone who believes evolution is no more likely an explanation than Goddunnnit is not going to be put off by mere scientific evidence that abortions can be a medical necessity, never mind worry about enforcing his personal beliefs on people who don't share them.
 

petaljam

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Trump isn't a pro-lifer. He's either pro-choice or neutral. So that leaves the rest - Congress and a new appointee to the Supreme Court. It wouldn't be the first time that Republicans had those and didn't overturn it. I'm betting it stays.
Indeed. Most Republicans (most prolifers, afaict) don't believe their own rhetoric. But I think if Trump loses interest in his shiny new toy and goes back to being a star who spends his time groping women (though TBH the second part of that sentence doesn't seem to be incompatible with being president), Pence is one who would be prepared to overturn it, whatever the consequences.

More generally, I wonder how the power play between the two will work out : Trump will want the trappings of being president. I don't know if just being the guy who signs the documents is enough for him. I suspect he may be a meddler - the worst of both worlds for his administration perhaps?
 

GDPR

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Which netted the Trump campaign 81% of Evangelical voters, actually higher than President Reagan.
Well people forget that "Evangelicals" can be very Left wing on actual Social Justice issues (gay marriage has nothing to do with actual Social Justice)- Methodism played a big role in the rise of Labour movement in the UK for instance and "Evangelicals" form the backbone of Welsh Nationalism/Separatism. They are a much more complex lot than people often given them credit for due to the very obvious silliness they often have. A lot of people voted for Trump for two reasons; jobs and peace, what the Left used to stand for.
 

Spanner Island

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WTF did Trump choose Pence?

Could Trump be a Trojan horse for people like Pence whether Trump knows it or not?
 


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