• Due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software, some users were "banned" when they tried to change their passwords at the end of February. This does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you were affected by this, please us viua the Contact us link in the footer.

Peter Hitchens: We surrendered to the Provisional IRA - Northern Ireland not really part of UK


Just Jack

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
3,792
[video=youtube;1zmfcTKIdik]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zmfcTKIdik[/video]

An interesting clip from the BBC, in which Peter Hitchens claims, that in 1998 the British Government – under pressure from the Clintons – surrendered to the Provisional IRA.

When the presenter points out that the IRA did not achieve Irish reunification, Hitchens remarks that it is merely a matter of time and that the present interim arrangement has only been constructed to allow Sinn Fein to put the structures in place for its eventual and gradual realisation, with the six counties becoming distinctly less British as the years pass on.

It’s difficult to disagree with much of what he’s said. It seems there is a degree of realism creeping into the mind-set of the British Right.

I’m not sure this realism will be shared among the British nationalists in the north, they seem to prefer a head-in-sand approach, hence the furore over the removal of the Union flag.

So many shredded promises: we’ll never sit in Government with Sinn Fein, we’ll never allow the Maze to be redeveloped, we’ll never allow Policing and Justice Powers to be devolved to the north, we’ll never allow them to take down our flag...

Hitchens has them sussed out.
 


Swords Hoopster

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 18, 2012
Messages
11,555
I'd have had more faith in what his brother used to say. This guy is a confirmed space-daddy believer and believes in 2,000 year old tales from the Arab desert.

Those are dubious foundations on which to lay claim any knowledge of the modern World.
 

Glaucon

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 13, 2012
Messages
8,340
Hitchens is right, but not about the PIRA, who did not achieve their aims whatever SF may say after the fact.

Northern Ireland is different to every other part of the UK because it is a colonized portion of somebody else's territory - Ireland. This is not the case for Scotland, England and Wales.

If you had sawn off a portion of the British Raj populated with Anglo-Indians and maintained that it was part of the UK, not India, it'd be much the same, and equally as unstable in the long term.
 
Last edited:

former wesleyan

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
25,835
You're going to love 'em!
 

eskrimador

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2009
Messages
11,991
I can't imagine quoting Hitchens except for as an example of a self deluding, self publicising professional contrarian in a debate about useless hacks
 

InsideImDancing

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 3, 2011
Messages
21,961
There's some truth in what he says and some rubbish, and who's that hottie?

Most non-extremists know that what we have here is a compromise, and the sooner we embrace it the better. This 'cultural war' craic is not doing anyone any good. Both sides need to face the reality that there can't be a clear winner if we're ever to really move on.
 

likesfish

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 20, 2011
Messages
1,710
The prod plan was for a huge pile of fenian corpses
The pira plan was for the brits to flee via helicopter ala vietnam.( a que of minibuses at the ferryport being not nearly as photogenicpetunia)
The british goverment plan was for the whole sorry mess to go away.
The spook plan was its a secret:(
Given that none of them were very realistic everyone involved had various moments of being irrational a messy compromise is the best that can be achieved.
The end state is either subsumed into some euro superstate or some messy dual nationality federal setup. That satisfies no one.
 

IrishWelshCelt

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 13, 2012
Messages
2,664
The thing about the NI situation is everyone knows that SF/DUP have been the big winners for the GFA but nationalists as a whole have been the biggest winners. Step by step the 6 counties are turning greener with Antrim the only true unionist stronghold left, tick tock.
 

Ren84

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
Messages
49,992
Don't mind him. This is the same clown who also thinks the Brits have surrendered to "political Islam". The guy rights for the Daily Heil so should be roundly mocked. I truly feel sorry for his now deceased brother Christopher to have shared a sibling so utterly bonkers as this guy.

A good exposé of Hitchens:
Peter Hitchens - RationalWiki
 
M

moderateeastlderryunionis

The thing about the NI situation is everyone knows that SF/DUP have been the big winners for the GFA but nationalists as a whole have been the biggest winners. Step by step the 6 counties are turning greener with Antrim the only true unionist stronghold left, tick tock.
That is cloud cuckoo land talk there.
 

IrishWelshCelt

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 13, 2012
Messages
2,664
That is cloud cuckoo land talk there.
I'd expect just a response from a poster calling himself "moderateeastlderryunionis".

Not enough room for the "T"? You should have dropped "moderate" bit and stuck the "t" in, everyone knows theres no such thing as a moderate unionist anyway.
 
M

moderateeastlderryunionis

I'd expect just a response from a poster calling himself "moderateeastlderryunionis".

Not enough room for the "T"? You should have dropped "moderate" bit and stuck the "t" in, everyone knows theres no such thing as a moderate unionist anyway.
What is wrong that you couldnt stay on the subject? To suggest that Antrim is the only unionist stronghold left in Northern Ireland is a very misinformed statement. Im entitled to that opinion and is on topic, you on the other hand reply to me with a jibe about the rushed spelling error of my username, I have an excuse as i was busy and am unaware of how to edit my username, but you on the other hand deserve the dunce hat for your previously mentioned statement.
 

between the bridges

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 21, 2011
Messages
45,661
He's right though.
Not really, he give's an opinion nothing more, my own is that with the so called 'greening' and more importantly gradual normalisation, a UI is becoming more and more an aspiration dream for sad cranks...
 

between the bridges

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 21, 2011
Messages
45,661
I'd expect just a response from a poster calling himself "moderateeastlderryunionis".

Not enough room for the "T"? You should have dropped "moderate" bit and stuck the "t" in, everyone knows theres no such thing as a moderate unionist anyway.
Indeed seig heil...
 

Ó Ghabhainn

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 2, 2009
Messages
3,153
The thing about the NI situation is everyone knows that SF/DUP have been the big winners for the GFA but nationalists as a whole have been the biggest winners. Step by step the 6 counties are turning greener with Antrim the only true unionist stronghold left, tick tock.
Antrim county maybe.
 

Swords Hoopster

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 18, 2012
Messages
11,555
The thing about the NI situation is everyone knows that SF/DUP have been the big winners for the GFA but nationalists as a whole have been the biggest winners. Step by step the 6 counties are turning greener with Antrim the only true unionist stronghold left, tick tock.
That's absolute tosh mate. There were no winners, only losers. Its a compromise.

You're talking sh*te.
 

Swords Hoopster

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 18, 2012
Messages
11,555
Not really, he give's an opinion nothing more, my own is that with the so called 'greening' and more importantly gradual normalisation, a UI is becoming more and more an aspiration dream for sad cranks...
I actually agree with that wholesale. Now that CNR's have gotten equality and a fair crack of the whip, a UI is more and more unlikely.
The amazing thing is that it took main-stream Unionism 70-odd years to cotton on to that fact.

They're a bit slow on the uptake that lot.
 

New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top