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Peter Sutherland


mountainyman

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Joined
Dec 12, 2006
Messages
36
Some say Suds is a big hero but someone said to me today that he had structured the WTO to ensure that hardship was borne disporportainately by the world's poorest people and millions of people had died because of how he structured reform.

The same person also said that suds had locked up a load of peace protestors when Reagan visited Garret. No WAY I said.

They also said that Garret got a IR£200,000 debt written off by AIB. NO WAY
 

FFrCRAP

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Apr 15, 2004
Messages
23
Website
www.ucd.ie
I shouldn't really be replying to silly posts like this but I suppose when the alternative is study I'll reply to anything!

mountainyman said:
Some say Suds is a big hero but someone said to me today that he had structured the WTO to ensure that hardship was borne disporportainately by the world's poorest people and millions of people had died because of how he structured reform.
It seems you or your 'someone said to me' has already made his mind up with regard to Peter Sutherland. With regard to WTO reform your assertion is ridiculous. Reform in Trade has, as ever, been painfully slow (as evidenced by the current Doha round) but it's wrong to blame this on a single individual.

Big Bang Trade Liberilisation would be wrong also and would lead to a race to the bottom for wholesale prices that would hurt producers in developing countries. Trade reform has to be done in increments. The Uraguay round ('92/'93) was the result of painstacking negotiotions between the EU, US, the Cairns group (fast developing countries who export Agricultural products), NGO's and the WTO itself. It's success or otherwise can not be levelled at one man (Sutherland). In any case it did see some movement in tarriffs and increased trade for developing countries.

Indeed even the small changes implemented by the WTO under Sutherlands tenure had big effects. Here in Ireland we've had the collapse of our textile industry, and the increasing substitution of goods from developing countries (e.g Brazilian Beef).

Does 'mountainyman' support 'big bang' trade liberalisation rather than (slow) incremental reform esposed by Sutherland and others? Because 'big bang' trade liberilsation would hurt Ireland's Agricultural and manufacturing sectors in a big way.

I think Sutherland, like Hillery, David Byrne and dare I say it, Charlie Mc Creevy, distinguished themselves on the European and World stage when freed from the partisan rancour of domestic politics. (note how I left out Flynn ;))

mountainyman said:
The same person also said that suds had locked up a load of peace protestors when Reagan visited Garret. No WAY I said.
He was AG at the time. I was only a toddler then so I can't comment with any certainty about the visit. As far as I know a handful of people were arrested for civil disruption or something. I'd imagine the Gardai 'locked them up' rather than the AG. ;) Anyway Fitzgerald did give a speech during the visit outlining Irelands objections to Iran-Contra and other aspects of US foreign policy using fairly forceful language (or at least more forceful than the nonsensical gibberish about Iraq spoken by Mary McAllesse and Bertie Ahern during the visit by Dubya). In addition there were widespread public protests about the visit by Reagan.

mountainyman said:
They also said that Garret got a IR£200,000 debt written off by AIB. NO WAY
Indeed. He was Chairman at the time, so it can be presumed he wasn't involved in the day-to-day running of the Bank. Who knows if he was involved in the decision? AIB also wrote off loans for Charlie Haughey, maybe they felt they would extend the same courtesy to Fitzgerald as they did for Charlie.

Just for the record though, Fitzgeralds loans were to pay for his wifes substansial medical bills (in contrast to Haugheys which paid for his Mistress and mimmicking the habits of the British Ascendency in Kinsealy :D ). At the time politicans salaries weren't at the obscene levels they are at now, so it understandable how Garrett Fitzgerald got into financial difficulties (and of course he didn't have a collection of cronies to have a 'dig out' for him a la Bertie! ;))

You could level legitimite criticism at Sutherland for the enviromental damage done by BP (of which he is chairman) but then you have to assert that in all likelyhood a non-executive Chairman would have little knowledge of the day-to-day decisions made by the company that have implications on the enviroment. And of course you would balance it out by pointing out BP's small but growing investment in renwable energy.

The only bad thing I could say about Sutherland is that he has quite a refined accent but I've noticed it is a poor infliction sufferred by nearly all in the legal profession. Shysters do like to talk 'proper'. :lol:

With regard to yourself I've noticed you've only made a handful of posts. One of my first posts was about Noel Dempseys (then) plan to re-introduce 3rd level fees. At the time I was foaming-at-the-mouth with anger at the proposal (hence the partisan username) and my posts at the time were full of F*** this and that and unreasoned and silly statements. All of us say silly and stupid things from time to time, so I'm going to presume that you starting this topic was just a mistake on your part.
 

Catalpa

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 10, 2004
Messages
10,301
Sutherland is an arch Capitalist with a global political agenda.

Annan has charged him with pushing further Mass Immigration into the 1st World States incl the ROI.

Not a character I would have much admiration for.

I don't think he even lives in Ireland anymore.
 

Catalpa

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Messages
10,301
Jimmy Sands said:
I don't think he even lives in Ireland anymore.
How dare he!
exactly - he is a supporter of Mass Immigration into Ireland yet he won't even live here.

Even if he did you can be sure he would reside in some exclusive estate where immigrants are thin on the ground.

I doubt he's send his kids to a school where 40% of the others kids are from the ethnics.
 

Jimmy Sands

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Oct 11, 2006
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Not at all. What could be more consistent that advocating immigration and being an immigrant himself? As for where he sends his kids, I assume it's somewhere posh and expensive. "Ethnics" will have nothing to do with it.

It seems the one thing an Irishman can do to make himself unpopular on here is to become successful. Fair play to the man.
 

Catalpa

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Jimmy Sands said:
Not at all. What could be more consistent that advocating immigration and being an immigrant himself? As for where he sends his kids, I assume it's somewhere posh and expensive. "Ethnics" will have nothing to do with it.

It seems the one thing an Irishman can do to make himself unpopular on here is to become successful. Fair play to the man.
But successful at what exactly?

It all depends whether he is doing good in the World for the sake of helping others or just usiing his considerable intellect to line his own pocket. That's not exactly illegal I admit but it's hardly admirable either. :oops:

He strikes me as being a bit too smug in the way he views his fellow countrymen and women.
 

Jimmy Sands

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Successful in his chosen field of endeavour.

Smug? If I'd a career like that I'd be putting up statues of myself.

Feck the begrudgers. As a people we're far too prone to tall poppy syndrome.
 

ireland2004

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2004
Messages
316
Catalpa said:
Jimmy Sands said:
I don't think he even lives in Ireland anymore.
How dare he!
exactly - he is a supporter of Mass Immigration into Ireland yet he won't even live here.

Even if he did you can be sure he would reside in some exclusive estate where immigrants are thin on the ground.

I doubt he's send his kids to a school where 40% of the others kids are from the ethnics.
Where does he live?
 

rockofcashel

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Just a correction for you FFrCrap, in case you heard wrong at the local FG cumann.

FFrCRAP said:
Just for the record though, Fitzgeralds loans were to pay for his wifes substansial medical bills (in contrast to Haugheys which paid for his Mistress and mimmicking the habits of the British Ascendency in Kinsealy :D ). At the time politicans salaries weren't at the obscene levels they are at now, so it understandable how Garrett Fitzgerald got into financial difficulties (and of course he didn't have a collection of cronies to have a 'dig out' for him a la Bertie! ;))
I don't know where you got that story from ...

Garrett Fitzgeralds debts had nothing to do with "his wifes medical bills".

Garret had been given a tip by one of his "friends" that Guiness Peat Aviation (a successful aviation company in the mid-80's), was a "sure thing" when it was about to be floated on the stock market. He was advised to "borrow" a substantial amount of money, and buy stock, and when the stock rose, pay off the debt and interest, and make himself a healthy profit.

Unfortunately for him, the stock bombed, leaving him with worthless stock, and a hefty loan bill from AIB.

Unable to pay off the loan, he had the bank "write off" his debt.

Can't remember was this just before or just after Peter Sutherland got the Irish comissioners job at the EU, but which or whether, I'm sure it was in no way related to the writing off of the loans.
 

FFrCRAP

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www.ucd.ie
rockofcashel said:
Just a correction for you FFrCrap, in case you heard wrong at the local FG cumann.

Garrett Fitzgeralds debts had nothing to do with "his wifes medical bills".

Garret had been given a tip by one of his "friends" that Guiness Peat Aviation (a successful aviation company in the mid-80's), was a "sure thing" when it was about to be floated on the stock market. He was advised to "borrow" a substantial amount of money, and buy stock, and when the stock rose, pay off the debt and interest, and make himself a healthy profit.

Unfortunately for him, the stock bombed, leaving him with worthless stock, and a hefty loan bill from AIB.

Unable to pay off the loan, he had the bank "write off" his debt.
Correct and right RoC, just checked it out there, apologies. :oops:
Although Joan Fitzgerald did incur substantial bills during her lengthy illness, which resulted in Fitzgerald having to actually work post retirement (easy work granted - lectures, columns written for newspapers etc but work nonetheless) unlike Mr. Haughey...
 

section4

Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2005
Messages
8
Jimmy Sands said:
Not at all. What could be more consistent that advocating immigration and being an immigrant himself? As for where he sends his kids, I assume it's somewhere posh and expensive. "Ethnics" will have nothing to do with it.

It seems the one thing an Irishman can do to make himself unpopular on here is to become successful. Fair play to the man.[/quot

you are unpopular and you are not successful
 

kNOCKBALLYNAMEADY

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Joined
Aug 4, 2006
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I remember the Reagan visit. Friends of mine in the Irish Communist Party were visited by the Gardai just before the visit. They were asked to write down where they would be during the visit. There was talk of locking up the members but it did not come to pass as far as I know. There was also a very big protest against him in Dublin.
 

mountainyman

Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2006
Messages
36
I don't believe Garret would have had AIB write off his debts. It looks too dodgy considering he used taxpayers money to cleverly bail them out of bankruptcy and not take any percentage of AIB for the state. Squeaky clean Garret wouldn't do that.

I don't believe Garret is a bad enough father to have a multi millionaire son who wouldn't contribute to his ma's medical bills.

So I just don't believe anything you guys say.

FFRCrap I love Suds I just want some evidence that he didn't structure liberalistaion so the poor bore a disporportianate share of the burden leading to millions of deaths.
 

CrockerJarman

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Aug 21, 2003
Messages
107
rockofcashel said:
Can't remember was this just before or just after Peter Sutherland got the Irish comissioners job at the EU, but which or whether, I'm sure it was in no way related to the writing off of the loans.

It was neither. Sutherland was appointed to the Commission in 1984.
 

rockofcashel

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CrockerJarman said:
rockofcashel said:
Can't remember was this just before or just after Peter Sutherland got the Irish comissioners job at the EU, but which or whether, I'm sure it was in no way related to the writing off of the loans.

It was neither. Sutherland was appointed to the Commission in 1984.
When did Garrett get the bail out ?
 

CrockerJarman

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Aug 21, 2003
Messages
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Well I don't know who was ever bailed out or when.

But the failed GPA float was in 1992/93, if memory serves me correct, so you are talking some time after that and a decade after Sutherland was nominated to the Commission.

McSharry was Euro Commissioner at this point I'd say, but I'm not sure.
 

KingKane

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kingkane
rockofcashel said:
CrockerJarman said:
Well I don't know who was ever bailed out or when.
Ah come on CJ :roll:
And not all of Fitzgerald's debt was written off either. A lot of it was but not 100%. Whereas Charlie used to fund his election campaigns with checks to ould dears who needed the money to pay the ESB by giving them checks with no money behind them that the banks simply didn't bounce because it was him.
 
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