Pierse Construction file for examinership

DaveM

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RT News: Pierse Construction to file for examinership

Surprised this didn't happen sooner. There's been rumours that Pierse were in dire trouble for the past 18 months.

It'll be interesting to see if ACC Bank is amongst their creditors. Were it not for the fact that they owed money to ACC, Liam Carroll's and John Fleming's groups would still be limping on.
 


Touché

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the bad news is never ending, an iconic firm highly visible throughout the country
 

PUFF DADDY

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other half got let go from them Dec 08, was on the cards alright.
 

controller

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As developers go, I always thought their quality was .........Poor. I'm surprised that they haven't folded yet
 
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Arent they just applying for protection? This means nobody will loose their jobs just like Quinn.
 

Cassandra Syndrome

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Another Construction Firm RIP. There will soon be none left. Then when something is needed to be constructed the prices will be astronomical and in very short supply.

This is what happens when interest rates are too low for too long and resources get completely misallocated and the inevitable bust crucifies those at the early stages of production.

And it is those at the early stages of production that drives recoveries as they are thinking long term and collectively they can start producing for a demand that they perceive in occuring over a year down the road. If the recovery happens and they are still waiting, they have missed the boat, because of the extensive lead time.
 

hammer

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Next consequence from listening to News last night is that NAMA ensuring that it makes a profit will not release any funds to creditors of these developers already in NAMA.

There will be a lot more devastation in the sector.

Did I read previously that NAMA will only release money to those projects that need to be completed as they have some value?

We are up the creek :(
 

Clanrickard

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This is what happens when interest rates are too low for too long and resources get completely misallocated and the inevitable bust crucifies those at the early stages of production.
.
Half true. Proper planning could have stopped the rot.
 

hammer

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Proper planning :)

When was there ever proper planning?

Building on flood plains, brown envelopes, etc...............
 

Cassandra Syndrome

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Half true. Proper planning could have stopped the rot.
Proper planning by market forces and not some bureaucrat with the pretense of knowledge.
 

cozzy121

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Good, something else to toss onto the Bonfire of the Vanities of bertie's property bubble.
It's only when we clear away all the elements of that corrupt time in this nations history that we can hope to recover.
 

Clanrickard

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Proper planning by market forces and not some bureaucrat with the pretense of knowledge.
That must be the most assanine post in a long time. Imagine if we left planning to the market? Every flood plain would be full of houses. There'd be hotels on the cliffs of Moher and every cliff top going. Plus we'd have high rise squashed into every corenr of Dublin.
 

johnfás

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That must be the most assanine post in a long time. Imagine if we left planning to the market? Every flood plain would be full of houses. There'd be hotels on the cliffs of Moher and every cliff top going. Plus we'd have high rise squashed into every corenr of Dublin.
Two sided coin. Of course we need to regulate markets (regulation is my field of work) and the regulatory environment in Ireland is extremely poor. However, one can also argue that the market would not have built all these houses in ridiculous locations had the intervention of tax incentives not occurred. I wouldn't fully subscribe to the view that poor development would not have occurred without the tax incentives, but it certainly encouraged poor development.
 

constitutionus

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if im reading this right the interesting thing about this one is these guys arent actually guilty of bad business practices.

they quite simply didnt get paid for their work by their clients.

big difference from what weve seen from the other muppets so far who just borrowed themselves into insolvency and potentially the start of someting far worse than weve seen so far.

how many other companies out there, from various other sectors, are in the same boat. we know the state wont even cough up the dough for work done for up to three months or more so i can only assume theres alot more of this going on than we think.
 

Libero

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[quote="constitutionus]if im reading this right the interesting thing about this one is these guys arent actually guilty of bad business practices.

they quite simply didnt get paid for their work by their clients.[/quote]
Looking back, do you think it was good business practice for Pierse to have extended millions of euro of credit, apparently uninsured, to Irish property developers during the bubble years of 2005-2008?

The size of Pierse's bad debts raises some questions about the bank borrowings of their debtors. If those borrowings weren't used to pay contractors like Pierce, where did the money go?
 

constitutionus

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Looking back, do you think it was good business practice for Pierse to have extended millions of euro of credit, apparently uninsured, to Irish property developers during the bubble years of 2005-2008?

The size of Pierse's bad debts raises some questions about the bank borrowings of their debtors. If those borrowings weren't used to pay contractors like Pierce, where did the money go?
well in fairness what option did they have considering the scale of the business?

its standard business practice to get your money after youve done the job, not before it.

in fact i'd wager you yourself got paid this week/month for work you did "for credit" in the previous week/month, not in advance of it. if only so you can account for stuff like over time and unexpected occurances.

from what ive seen anyone looking to get paid in advace of a job would be considered to be a scam artist.

:)

like i said i dont know the ins and outs of this business, if they engaged in massive borrowing to expand the company unsustainably to keep up with the boom then thats another story and they brought this on themselves.

but if they were always this size then the responsibilty lies mainly with the people who didnt pay their bills.

on your latter point thats a damn good question. from what ive seen the only people to benefit in real terms from the boom ( i.e, they HAVE the cash ) was the landowners, and i include the state in that as there was some bloke on newstalk about a week or so ago crowing about the 500 million odd money he made for the exchequer from lands flogged due to decrentalisation.

everyone else seems to have just been a pilar in the pyramid scheme supporting them.
 

powderfinger

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Pierse back before the High Court today.Judge Peter Kelly has extended Court protection for one week.He wants further detail from Pierse on a number of concerns raised.He will make a decision as to the petition for examinership after these issues are addressed next Thursday.The key areas concern a claim that Pierse traded while insolvent,Kilsaran's concerns about the large levels of inter-company debt, and Judge Kelly's concern about the survival prospects of the firm going forward given it's dependency on future contracts financed from the public purse.

Pierse court protection extended - The Irish Times - Thu, Oct 28, 2010

Pierse Contracting has been given one week to convince the High Court to continue court protection to it after a judge today expressed concerns about the companies’ survival prospects and other issues, including a claim it traded for 18 months while insolvent.
The company asked Mr Justice Peter Kelly to appoint John McStay as examiner to Pierse Contracting and Pierse Building Services but the judge adjourned the petition to next Thursday to allow the company respond to his own concerns and several issues raised by creditors. He had insufficient information to decide the matter now, he said.
 

extraspin

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It's interesting to see the intercompany loans on Pierse Contracting's books. €40 million ended up with Remayne Holdings Ltd, the Directors and Shareholders of which are all either current or former Directors, Snr Management and/or partners of them.

Their UK outfit has 21 different judgements against them; there are at least 5/6 current judgements against Pierse Contracting in Ireland and they still managed to successfully tender for and be awarded PPP contracts for schools and motorway service stations. Ultimately, the Directors of Pierse have been using taxpayers money from the PPP projects to pay off their older private debts. I believe the Examiner will not be appointed and they will go; next step is that the Directors are prosecuted for reckless trading.
 

powderfinger

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Judge Peter Kelly wants a sworn statement before the Court by 2pm answering questions raised by creditors and the Judge.
This follows a request by counsel for Pierce for the Commercial Court to appoint a liquidator to the company.

Judge criticises Pierse liquidator bid - RT News

Lawyers for the company said the position had 'materially disimproved' since an interim examiner was appointed last month, and the company no longer wished to proceed with the examinership process.
But Mr Justice Peter Kelly has sharply criticised the approach taken by the company and said he had concerns over possible abuse of court process.
He has now given the interim examiner until 2pm to file a sworn statement answering questions raised by creditors and the judge at the last hearing date.
 


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