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Plan to build memorial to Bomber Command.


redneck

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The mayor of Dresden, Helma Orosz, has critisised the proposal to build a memorial in London's Green Park. On a visit to London to commemorate the 70th anniversary of the blitz- she said the proposed monument would not be "part of the culture of reconciliation". In Dresden, City officials fear the Far right, which marches every year to condemn the Allied attacks are poised to milk this for their own uses. London mayor Boris Johnson, however, said it was right to build the monument. It honours the bravery of British bomber crews. More than 55,000 Allied airmen lost their lives in the campaign. Dresden was heavily bombed on the night of 13th February. Estimates say 20,000 died in the fire.
This is a tricky topic- personally there is already a monument to Arthur "Bomber" Harris in the city of London.
Germans feel that they are still being punished for the sins of the Hitler regime. What's the solution?
 


Oldira1

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Let the Brits build a memorial to their war dead just as long as they do not complain if the Germans build a memorial to the Luftwaffe in Berlin.
 

SlabMurphy

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The Brits are sick, absoulutely sick. Britain has been called the cancer of humanity and nothing better could describe that perevted country.
 

former wesleyan

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The Brits are sick, absoulutely sick. Britain has been called the cancer of humanity
and nothing better could describe that perevted country.
By whom ? If you think that the Nazi rampage through Europe would have ended up with some kind of united Ireland you're deluded.
 

controller

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Let the Brits build a memorial to their war dead just as long as they do not complain if the Germans build a memorial to the Luftwaffe in Berlin.
I like that.........
 

Jezza

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I would prefer a monument to the aircrews over one to Harris, and I expect he would have agreed.

What the Germans do is their business.
 

Tommythecommy

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We should build a memorial to the Irishmen who served in the RAF in Dublin

We should build a memorial to the Irishmen who served in the RAF in Dublin. We should also honour the Few. Their service in winning the Battle of Britain saved us from German invasion, and determined the course of WW2 and preserved democracy in Europe.
 

Thac0man

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The problems of Germanys Far Right being on the march in Dresden or anywhere else are Gremanys problems. In the war Germany gambled (against the advice of some of its greatest generals) and Germany lost, Jap[an likewise - they should get over that. Britain should never have been selective about which soldiers it chose to honour and which it would not, it was total war from the outset.

What is interesting, yet again, is that the deeply held views of the European Far Right are syncing almost prefectly with the Far Left. While the German and European far right were on the knees post war, the opinions they now hold dear and rally around on Bomber Harris, Horishima and Britain were being developed and kept warm by the Far Left.

There is no direct idiological link between the European Far Right and the US Far Right, but the bridging link between them has been and remains the European Far Left. On this issue it can be seen that the European far right and left are in sync. And for years the militiamen type far right movement in the US have been plying a nice trade in selling their books and peddling their opinion on US anti-federalism to a thirsty and accepting European Far Left. If only they had something else in commonm like hating Jews... oh wait. :rolleyes:
 

SlabMurphy

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I would prefer a monument to the aircrews over one to Harris, and I expect he would have agreed.

What the Germans do is their business.
So if the Germans buildt one to the Luftwaffe who bombed Britain, would that be ok with you and the Brits ? Screaming at the outrage and injustice of it is more likely :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 

Sync

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I would prefer a monument to the aircrews over one to Harris, and I expect he would have agreed.

What the Germans do is their business.
Yup. It's regrettable that the Germans can't look back at the wars without acknowledging that many of their young men fought and died bravely for their country as opposed to any Nazi ideals. That doesn't mean the other countries involved in the war shouldn't be able to recognise those who served.
 

Joopface

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Any military monument celebrates the success of one group in killing and defeating another.

The firebombing of Dresden is - of course - a very famous and notorious devastation, with colossal civilian cost. That said, reasonably indiscriminate bombing of civilian population centres was commonplace on both sides during WW2 - the Germans were sending rockets into London towards the end with very little idea of where in London they'd end up. Is there a moral difference?

So, I think it comes down to;
Is it okay for a country to celebrate a military success by putting a statue up to their soldiers?
Assuming you're okay with that principle, I think it's an arbitrary distinction to protest at the bombing of a particular city.

Germany won't honour the Luftwaffe of WW2 in the same way, of course, for the reason that putting statues up to Nazi military units isn't a good idea politically, and the German state probably don't want the military objectives and achievements of the Nazis celebrated.
 

SlabMurphy

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We should build a memorial to the Irishmen who served in the RAF in Dublin. We should also honour the Few. Their service in winning the Battle of Britain saved us from German invasion, and determined the course of WW2 and preserved democracy in Europe.
Yeah and it would quickly end up like Nelsons Pillar.

The real effectiveness occured when U.S. long-range Mustang fighters became available in large numbers. Mustangs escorted USAAF bombers on daylight raids against synthetic oil plants, the Achilles Heel of the German war economy. The cream of the Luftwaffe's experienced fighter pilots were lost in the war of attrition waged by the Americans.
 

Old Mr Grouser

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So if the Germans buildt one to the Luftwaffe who bombed Britain, would that be ok with you and the Brits ? Screaming at the outrage and injustice of it is more likely :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
"Screaming at the outrage and injustice of it is more likely :rolleyes: :rolleyes:"

Very true, Slab. But I have no recollection of ever being bombed by the RAF or the Yanks. ;)
 

kerdasi amaq

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We should build a memorial to the Irishmen who served in the RAF in Dublin. We should also honour the Few. Their service in winning the Battle of Britain saved us from German invasion, and determined the course of WW2 and preserved democracy in Europe.
Yes, the English were really worried that Germany was planning to invade Ireland(thereby infringing their monopoly), so they declared war on Germany to stop them. An action that made such an invasion more likely.

It was the British who began the bombing campaign against civilians, starting the day that Churchill:evil: became Prime Minister.
 
Last edited:

owedtojoy

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The mayor of Dresden, Helma Orosz, has critisised the proposal to build a memorial in London's Green Park. On a visit to London to commemorate the 70th anniversary of the blitz- she said the proposed monument would not be "part of the culture of reconciliation". In Dresden, City officials fear the Far right, which marches every year to condemn the Allied attacks are poised to milk this for their own uses. London mayor Boris Johnson, however, said it was right to build the monument. It honours the bravery of British bomber crews. More than 55,000 Allied airmen lost their lives in the campaign. Dresden was heavily bombed on the night of 13th February. Estimates say 20,000 died in the fire.
This is a tricky topic- personally there is already a monument to Arthur "Bomber" Harris in the city of London.
Germans feel that they are still being punished for the sins of the Hitler regime. What's the solution?
The monument is long overdue. Britain's "bravest and best" young men went into Bomber Command and suffered apalling casualties.

Only for the bomber crews, the war would probably have been lost. Easy to sit in judgment from the comfort of your free, democratic armchair sixty years later.
 

Old Mr Grouser

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Yes, the English were really worried that Germany was planning to invade Ireland(thereby infringing their monopoly), so they declared war on Germany to stop them. An action that made such an invasion more likely.

It was the British who began the bombing campaign against civilians, starting the day that Churchill:evil: became Prime Minister.
What institution was it that pretended to be teaching you History?
 

kerdasi amaq

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The war was lost anyway, the English are still suffering from the delusion that they "won" the war. Both of them.

The only winners of the war were the international financiers who lent money to pay for fighting it.
 

Ifor Bach

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Yes, the English were really worried that Germany was planning to invade Ireland(thereby infringing their monopoly), so they declared war on Germany to stop them. An action that made such an invasion more likely.
No, they weren't.

It was the British who began the bombing campaign against civilians, starting the day that Churchill:evil: became Prime Minister.
No, it wasn't.
 

Catalpa

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The mayor of Dresden, Helma Orosz, has critisised the proposal to build a memorial in London's Green Park. On a visit to London to commemorate the 70th anniversary of the blitz- she said the proposed monument would not be "part of the culture of reconciliation". In Dresden, City officials fear the Far right, which marches every year to condemn the Allied attacks are poised to milk this for their own uses. London mayor Boris Johnson, however, said it was right to build the monument. It honours the bravery of British bomber crews. More than 55,000 Allied airmen lost their lives in the campaign. Dresden was heavily bombed on the night of 13th February. Estimates say 20,000 died in the fire.
This is a tricky topic- personally there is already a monument to Arthur "Bomber" Harris in the city of London.
Germans feel that they are still being punished for the sins of the Hitler regime. What's the solution?
Maybe Dresden should build one to the Luftwaffe Boys?:cool:
 

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