Planned school shooting averted in the US

PeacefulViking

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A massacre at a Maryland high school has apparently been averted after the aspiring mass murders father contacted the police. https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/national-international/Police-Teen-Plotting-Maryland-High-School-Attack-Nichole-Cevario-Referenced-Columbine-Newtown-417335283.html

Unusually, the would-be shooter is an 18-year old woman.

If she was a Muslim this would be major news and a certain president would have tweeted about it. But as there is no Islamic connection alleged yet, it has not gotten as much attention. It is worth keeping this in mind if you think we hear all the time about Muslim terrorism. (And no, I am not denying that Islamic terrorism is a real problem.)

Also worth noting is she managed to acquire the weapons for mass murder legally.
 


feedmelies

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If she was a Muslim this would be major news
Wrong.

and a certain president would have tweeted about it.
Possibly true, uncertain though.

It is worth keeping this in mind if you think we hear all the time about Muslim terrorism.
Not really, because Muslims disproportionately commit acts of terrorism and crime.

Feel free to challenge me on this, I will prove you wrong.
 

Researchwill

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Wrong.



Possibly true, uncertain though.



Not really, because Muslims disproportionately commit acts of terrorism and crime.

Feel free to challenge me on this, I will prove you wrong.
Please provide evidence that Muslims commit more crime than other sections in society, I would be very interested.
 

Hewson

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A massacre at a Maryland high school has apparently been averted after the aspiring mass murders father contacted the police. https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/national-international/Police-Teen-Plotting-Maryland-High-School-Attack-Nichole-Cevario-Referenced-Columbine-Newtown-417335283.html

Unusually, the would-be shooter is an 18-year old woman.

If she was a Muslim this would be major news and a certain president would have tweeted about it. But as there is no Islamic connection alleged yet, it has not gotten as much attention. It is worth keeping this in mind if you think we hear all the time about Muslim terrorism. (And no, I am not denying that Islamic terrorism is a real problem.)

Also worth noting is she managed to acquire the weapons for mass murder legally.
I see post #2 is straight in with a counter-argument. Predictable and boring.

The reality about these kinds of situations dawned on every American long ago, though those prepared to use their brains and argue for tighter gun controls were first to have the scales lifted from their eyes. We're left with the backwoodsmen from Dueling Banjos country who see no correlation between freely available mini-aresenals and mass shootings. Having a series of numbskull Presidents (mainly Republican) who won't do what needs to be done only ensures that such events will continue long into the future, followed by the usual hand-wringing, arguing and acceptance of the status quo.

Having Islamists to blame is convenient for those who prefer to view reality from the vantage point of having their heads twelve inches under sand but even a cursory glance at the statistics shows it up for what it is: lies.

There are parents and kids alive today who might otherwise be just another set of statistics.
 

feedmelies

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Please provide evidence that Muslims commit more crime than other sections in society, I would be very interested.
Sure. I will get some sources together now and edit them into this post later.

EDIT:

Germany:

Summary: the following migrant groups are over represented in crime compared to non migrants by the following ratios:
Turkey 2.46
Morocco 8.1
Algeria 28.48
Syria 1.97
Iraq 3.26

Numbers on migrant population in 2015:

https://www.destatis.de/DE/Publikationen/Thematisch/Bevoelkerung/MigrationIntegration/AuslaendBevoelkerung2010200157004.pdf?__blob=publicationFile

(Pages 37 to 41)

Numbers on crime among migrants in 2015:

https://www.bka.de/DE/AktuelleInformationen/StatistikenLagebilder/PolizeilicheKriminalstatistik/PKS2015/pks2015_node.html;jsessionid=C918803F70452D49F454FE3B9045FB91.live2291

(click on the "Jahrbuch")

-On page 67 we see that non-germans were 27.6% of crime suspects in 2015. This excludes crimes related to illegal immigration and international crime.

-On page 174 we get the % break down on crime among each migrant group.

-From the previous source, we see that foreigners were 11.1% of the population. Doing the maths (27.6/11.1)/((100-27.6)/(100-11.1)) we see that foreigners committed crime at a rate 3.05 times that of non foreigners.

Combining all this, we get the following table:



A - the proportion that each migrant group is of the total number of migrant crimes committed. E.g, Turks commit 13.3% of all crimes committed by migrants.

B - The number of each migrant group. i.e, there are 1.5m turks in Germany.

c. The percentage of the total migrant population. i.e, Turks are 16.5%

D. How over-represented each migrant group is in crime compared to the non migrant population.

This is A/C*3.05

i.e turks are 13.3% of the migrant crimes but 16.5% of the migrants. Therefore they commit crimes at a rate of 80.6% of migrants as a whole, and migrants commit crimes at a rate 305% that of Germans. So Turks commit crimes at a rate of (0.806*3.05) = 246% that of Germans.

Also interesting is that among more serious crimes, the number is even worse: recall that non-germans committed 27.6% of crime while being 11.1% of the population. For murder, that number is 36.1%, for sexual assault it is 33.1%, for assault it is 32.2% (Page 182)

Also note that these numbers include people with migrant background among Germans, so the real numbers are likely worse.

UK:
http://www.prisonreformtrust.org.uk/Portals/0/Documents/Bromley Briefings/summer 2016 briefing.pdf

In the UK, Muslims are 15% of the prison population while being less than 5% of the total population, making them over-represented by a factor of more than 3.

Netherlands

https://www.cbs.nl/-/media/_pdf/2016/47/ji2016s_web.pdf

On page 15 we see that 0.83% of Dutch are crime suspects, 1.16% of western immigrants are crime suspects and 3.15% of non-western immigrants are crime suspects.

Among Turks and Moroccans, the the numbers are 2.53% and 4.64% respectively.

So these mostly Muslim immigrant groups are over represented by a factor of 3 and 5 respectively.

Interestingly the numbers among second generation migrants is even worse - 3.62% among second generation turks and 7.36% among moroccans, compared to 1.7% and 2.52% respectively.


So there is pretty conclusive data from 3 European countries with large Muslim populations. I think it's relatively safe to assume the numbers are similar in other European countries, for the most part.
 
Last edited:

The Field Marshal

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Please provide evidence that Muslims commit more crime than other sections in society, I would be very interested.
feedmelies stated that Muslims disproportionately commit acts of terrorism.

Acts of terrorism are crimes in most countries but maybe not where you come from.

It is clear all you want to do is nit pick.

Terrorism is strongly linked to certain brands of Islam / Muslims and no amount of waffle from you or anybody else can alter that fact.
 

mangaire2

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A massacre at a Maryland high school has apparently been averted after the aspiring mass murders father contacted the police. https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/national-international/Police-Teen-Plotting-Maryland-High-School-Attack-Nichole-Cevario-Referenced-Columbine-Newtown-417335283.html

Unusually, the would-be shooter is an 18-year old woman.

If she was a Muslim this would be major news and a certain president would have tweeted about it.
not only "a certain president",
but they'd be a thread here on P.ie about it,
in which the usual suspects would be foaming at the mouth.

there was a 'shooting incident' last week at a shopping mall in the US.
as there wasn't a thread on it here, I assumed that it wasn't a "muzzie" or "the religion of Peace" which was responsible, either.
 

Researchwill

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feedmelies stated that Muslims disproportionately commit acts of terrorism.

Acts of terrorism are crimes in most countries but maybe not where you come from.

It is clear all you want to do is nit pick.

Terrorism is strongly linked to certain brands of Islam / Muslims and no amount of waffle from you or anybody else can alter that fact.
What the other poster said "Not really, because Muslims disproportionately commit acts of terrorism and crime."

The important word there is "and" hence why I asked about crime. i did not say his claim in any part was correct or not I simply asked for the evidence he said he had and related to crime.

If any one is nit picking it's you Pavlov's dog.
 

Hewson

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feedmelies stated that Muslims disproportionately commit acts of terrorism.

Acts of terrorism are crimes in most countries but maybe not where you come from.

It is clear all you want to do is nit pick.

Terrorism is strongly linked to certain brands of Islam / Muslims and no amount of waffle from you or anybody else can alter that fact.
Who's nitpicking?

Here are his exact words: "Not really, because Muslims disproportionately commit acts of terrorism and crime."

You'll know the significance of the 'and', I presume.
 

dizillusioned

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Well, its good that the FATHER reported this kid.

Difficult to do, but he thwarted heartache for many other families.
 

NYCKY

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A massacre at a Maryland high school has apparently been averted after the aspiring mass murders father contacted the police. https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/national-international/Police-Teen-Plotting-Maryland-High-School-Attack-Nichole-Cevario-Referenced-Columbine-Newtown-417335283.html

Unusually, the would-be shooter is an 18-year old woman.

If she was a Muslim this would be major news and a certain president would have tweeted about it. But as there is no Islamic connection alleged yet, it has not gotten as much attention. It is worth keeping this in mind if you think we hear all the time about Muslim terrorism. (And no, I am not denying that Islamic terrorism is a real problem.)

Also worth noting is she managed to acquire the weapons for mass murder legally.
This has been big news in the US, maybe not on p.ie.

Also, your effort at conflating school shootings and muslims is very poor. Mass school shootings aren't usually done by muslims.
 

Cai

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A massacre at a Maryland high school has apparently been averted after the aspiring mass murders father contacted the police. https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/national-international/Police-Teen-Plotting-Maryland-High-School-Attack-Nichole-Cevario-Referenced-Columbine-Newtown-417335283.html

Unusually, the would-be shooter is an 18-year old woman.

If she was a Muslim this would be major news and a certain president would have tweeted about it. But as there is no Islamic connection alleged yet, it has not gotten as much attention. It is worth keeping this in mind if you think we hear all the time about Muslim terrorism. (And no, I am not denying that Islamic terrorism is a real problem.)

Also worth noting is she managed to acquire the weapons for mass murder legally.
If the media payed attention to every killing (let alone attempted killing) in the US, they'd be on about little else. They shoot each other dead at a rate of about 13k a year. If Muslims did that to them their little drones would be above the Middle East permanently trying to kill everything that moves.
 

PeacefulViking

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This has been big news in the US, maybe not on p.ie.

Also, your effort at conflating school shootings and muslims is very poor. Mass school shootings aren't usually done by muslims.
I stand by the view that it would have gotten more attention if she was Muslim. It has not gotten much attention in Europe from what I can see and it is already of the front pages in the US. If she was muslims, then the islamophobes would keep the story in the news far longer.
 

feedmelies

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I assumed that the thread was about the USA - not Germany.
It is about western nations which have experienced Muslim migration in general. The UK, Germany and Netherlands are 3 countries that have experienced mass muslim migration and also publish crime statistics detailed by immigration background.
 

Cai

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It is about western nations which have experienced Muslim migration in general. The UK, Germany and Netherlands are 3 countries that have experienced mass muslim migration and also publish crime statistics detailed by immigration background.
But the assumption that countries that have seen very different migration patterns would have similar crime rates by different religious components of the population is obviously flawed.
 

feedmelies

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What he doesn't tell you is that there is no evidence whatsoever of a link between Muslim immigration & increases in crime rates in the USA.
The data isn't there, from what I've read. Still, in the countries where the data does exist... the evidence is pretty strong.

In any case, the US has not allowed mass muslim immigration to the extent many European countries have, so it's not a major issue there anyway. Your point is moot.
 


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