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Planning ahead: an all-Ireland motorway & dual carriageway road network by the late 2030's?

DJP

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Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
12,595
Ibec and their Northern Ireland equivalent the CBI last Sunday launched a report called "Connected: A prosperous island of 10 million people" regarding our all-island road network to try to encourage the Government and the Northern Ireland Executive to invest in a 20 year plan to connect cities and towns across the island of Ireland to a dual carriageway or motorway.




I do think that it would be impressive of the Government to commit to the plan. It would show really long term vision. Maybe the plan should be accepted but not put into operation until the end of next year or 2018 assuming we don't have an annual budget deficit and when it looks safer to invest in the plan. My figures can be corrected but €12 billion broken down over 20 years works out as less than a billion a year. I am thinking that we may not have to pay the full cost of the plan up front and the work could be carried out on a year-by-year basis thereby if sometimes we can't afford to pay that the plan could be suspended for the immediate future.

I am inclined to think that the Government should just commit to the plan.

What do you think?

Ibec/CBI set out ambitious plan for all-island economy | Ibec - Newsroom

Business bodies call for call for €12bn motorway investment- The Irish Times

Ibec's €12bn cross-border infrastructure plan launched- Independent.ie

A motorway spanning all of Ireland would cost every worker about €100 a year | Fora


My interview with Mary Rose Burke of Ibec today- Near FM
 


johnnypockets

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Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
15,188
The Cork to Limerick road badly needs an upgrade. Forgot how bad it was until i had to use it recently.
I would definitely think an improved road structure would be very welcome. I suppose it depends what would be sacrificed to do it.
 

between the bridges

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Joined
Sep 21, 2011
Messages
45,816
Meh, moi lives in a county with no motorways and no dual carriageways, personally I hope it stays like that...
 

NMunsterman

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Joined
May 18, 2007
Messages
6,140
Ibec and their Northern Ireland equivalent the CBI last Sunday launched a report called "Connected: A prosperous island of 10 million people" regarding our all-island road network to try to encourage the Government and the Northern Ireland Executive to invest in a 20 year plan to connect cities and towns across the island of Ireland to a dual carriageway or motorway.




I do think that it would be impressive of the Government to commit to the plan. It would show really long term vision. Maybe the plan should be accepted but not put into operation until the end of next year or 2018 assuming we don't have an annual budget deficit and when it looks safer to invest in the plan. My figures can be corrected but €12 billion broken down over 20 years works out as less than a billion a year. I am thinking that we may not have to pay the full cost of the plan up front and the work could be carried out on a year-by-year basis thereby if sometimes we can't afford to pay that the plan could be suspended for the immediate future.

I am inclined to think that the Government should just commit to the plan.

What do you think?

Ibec/CBI set out ambitious plan for all-island economy | Ibec - Newsroom

Business bodies call for call for €12bn motorway investment- The Irish Times

Ibec's €12bn cross-border infrastructure plan launched- Independent.ie

A motorway spanning all of Ireland would cost every worker about €100 a year | Fora


My interview with Mary Rose Burke of Ibec today- Near FM
Thanks for posting this - excellent positive vision.

Way to go.
 

cozzy121

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Joined
May 26, 2009
Messages
5,070
It would be a good idea if they don't follow the PPP route. Today the government is paying MILLIONS to the tool both owners on top of the revenue they earn form the tolls.
A national road network should be an asset to the people of Ireland, not a cash cow for builders with good "Pull" in government
 

locke

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Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
3,179
Some roads are definitely necessary, such as a Cork-Limerick one (although I don't think it needs to follow the current alignment so closely as implied there).

I also think that there proposal to link from Port Laoise up to Mullingar and Monaghan and on to Armagh is a good one. That opens up the Midlands to almost the entire country and also effectively acts as an outer ring-road for Dublin allowing Munster-Ulster traffic to completely bypass the M50.

There are others that are more questionable. Does a Belfast-Sligo road really need to be dual-carriageway west of Enniskillen (an area that also has challenging terrain to add to the cost)? If we've brought a dual-carriageway up to Swinford, does the link up to Ballina really need to be one?

My biggest question mark is over some of the alignments though. As motorways are faster, they don't have to take the shortest route all the time. The upgraded N4, N5 and N17 could be realigned into a much simpler structure (move the N17 further east and it can become the link up to Sligo). If the N24 was brought to dual-carriageway, would an M8/N24 journey not be fast enough that there would be no need to upgrade the N25 east of Youghal?
 

Roll_On

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May 27, 2010
Messages
18,001
Ridiculous fantacism, aside from the M20 and Cork Northern ring, perhps some short motorway links to the ports, there is no need for new motorways in this state. The ROI has a motrway network already a third the length of the UKs, and they have ten times our population.

Ireland's population is urbanising, finally. We need to be able to travel within the cities quickly, spend the money there.

We're currently going ahead with a dual carriageway from Westport to Castlebar :roll: a road with a pitiful 9,000 AADT, or the mega bypass of New Ross (13,000 AADT) while rail projects in Dublin remain on the shelf and the grid lock get's worse and worse.
 

GDPR

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For roads with less traffic, a two plus one lane system that alternates every few miles would do the job grand.
 

Roll_On

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Messages
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We really have a crazy number of international airports.
In fairness, Sligo, Galway and Waterford are basically gone with no more scheduled services. Not sure why Galway is even on there, I don't think it even does private planes anymore.
 

Roll_On

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For roads with less traffic, a two plus one lane system that alternates every few miles would do the job grand.
The 2+1 system has been shown to be ineffective on Irish roads. Here when you go to overtake someone they speed up. There isn't much need for an upgrade of our national roads, with the obvious sections a mentioned.

And of Course the whole of the Dublin-Belfast road should just be the M1 with full motorway restrictions and no dangerous central reserve cross overs. The locals just scoot across the road like wild rabits.
 

Dasayev

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Joined
Jul 7, 2006
Messages
2,825
It would be a good idea if they don't follow the PPP route. Today the government is paying MILLIONS to the tool both owners on top of the revenue they earn form the tolls.
A national road network should be an asset to the people of Ireland, not a cash cow for builders with good "Pull" in government

I don't know if I'm getting too cynical but when I look at most of that I'm thinking - the politicians get to cut lots of ribbons on roads to help them get reelected, while the taxpayer is then let having to "compensate" toll companies for 30 to 40 years for the lack of traffic.
 

GabhaDubh

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Joined
May 20, 2009
Messages
2,366
I remember reading that it will only cost the 1.9 million users a paltry €100 per year so one fifth of a billion annually. This been Ireland, this is before the cost will go up and before the mismanagement is put in place. Another slush fund.
 

Gin Soaked

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Apr 25, 2016
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4,311
Very good OP.

Don't like 2+1 system. Invariably someone runs out of road overtaking a troll who accelerates or the driver can't or won't floor it. Plus our roads are wet and cr@p covered and dark so overtaking is freaky.

Heading west to mayo/sligo is a brute and we need a way of avoiding Dublin with north south travel.
 

Roll_On

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Transport is the second biggest contributor to emissions in Ireland, we're already facing fines for insufficient reduction in emissions since 2005, more motorways are not going to help us there, better transport in the Cities(where the people and economic activity are) and improve the inter-city rail routes, that's the way forward.
 

statsman

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Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
56,265
The 2+1 system has been shown to be ineffective on Irish roads. Here when you go to overtake someone they speed up. There isn't much need for an upgrade of our national roads, with the obvious sections a mentioned.

And of Course the whole of the Dublin-Belfast road should just be the M1 with full motorway restrictions and no dangerous central reserve cross overs. The locals just scoot across the road like wild rabits.

Very good OP.

Don't like 2+1 system. Invariably someone runs out of road overtaking a troll who accelerates or the driver can't or won't floor it. Plus our roads are wet and cr@p covered and dark so overtaking is freaky.

Heading west to mayo/sligo is a brute and we need a way of avoiding Dublin with north south travel.
Agreed. The 2+1 stretch south of Mallow on the way to Cork is a nightmare after dark.
 

Schuhart

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Joined
Jul 24, 2006
Messages
4,844
In fairness, Sligo, Galway and Waterford are basically gone with no more scheduled services. Not sure why Galway is even on there, I don't think it even does private planes anymore.
You are substantially correct. None of those airports have any scheduled services. Their inclusion in this map suggests that no substantial analysis has been undertaken in support of this proposal. It's just a demand to build lots of roads for no reason.

Waterford's last service, to London, ended in June of this year. Galway has had no scheduled air service since 2011. Sligo has had no services since 2008. Anyone with even the most superficial knowledge of Irish transport would know this.

Will anyone in the media challenge IBEC on this, and ask them if they've even half a clue what they're talking about?
 

statsman

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Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
56,265
Ibec and their Northern Ireland equivalent the CBI last Sunday launched a report called "Connected: A prosperous island of 10 million people" regarding our all-island road network to try to encourage the Government and the Northern Ireland Executive to invest in a 20 year plan to connect cities and towns across the island of Ireland to a dual carriageway or motorway.




I do think that it would be impressive of the Government to commit to the plan. It would show really long term vision. Maybe the plan should be accepted but not put into operation until the end of next year or 2018 assuming we don't have an annual budget deficit and when it looks safer to invest in the plan. My figures can be corrected but €12 billion broken down over 20 years works out as less than a billion a year. I am thinking that we may not have to pay the full cost of the plan up front and the work could be carried out on a year-by-year basis thereby if sometimes we can't afford to pay that the plan could be suspended for the immediate future.

I am inclined to think that the Government should just commit to the plan.

What do you think?

Ibec/CBI set out ambitious plan for all-island economy | Ibec - Newsroom

Business bodies call for call for €12bn motorway investment- The Irish Times

Ibec's €12bn cross-border infrastructure plan launched- Independent.ie

A motorway spanning all of Ireland would cost every worker about €100 a year | Fora


My interview with Mary Rose Burke of Ibec today- Near FM
Limerick/Cork and Limerick/Waterford really need to be upgraded, as does Gort northwards to Sligo and beyond. Derry would be excellent.

Westport and Ballina, not so much.

I'd like to see a return to proper grass and hedge central reservations, partly for aesthetics, but mostly as wildlife reservations.
 

statsman

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Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
56,265
You are substantially correct. None of those airports have any scheduled services. Their inclusion in this map suggests that no substantial analysis has been undertaken in support of this proposal. It's just a demand to build lots of roads for no reason.

Waterford's last service, to London, ended in June of this year. Galway has had no scheduled air service since 2011. Sligo has had no services since 2008. Anyone with even the most superficial knowledge of Irish transport would know this.

Will anyone in the media challenge IBEC on this, and ask them if they've even half a clue what they're talking about?
One could argue that the lack of regional airports is a good case for linking those population centres with Dublin, Cork and Shannon by better roads.
 


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