Plans for second runway at Dublin Airport scrapped



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Rumours have already started about Aer Lingus planning to move some of its long-haul fleet to the new Gatwick base (probably to add capacity to Malaga like they do from Dublin, but there are possibly long-haul operations on the cards too). If the runway extension doesn't come, don't expect any of the new Aer Lingus A350s to be serving Dublin (with the necessary Shannon stopover). They'll be going straight to Gatwick.
 

Ren84

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A second runway at Dublin airport may be necessary if current traffic growth levels continue, Minister for Transport said on Thursday as he unveiled a new national aviation policy aimed at supporting the sector.

The strategy, which is the first of its kind, contains a number of measures including a commitment to maintain Dublin, Shannon and Cork airports under State ownership, a bid to increase connectivity with emerging markets, and a promise to ensure a high level of competition among airlines operating in Ireland.

Announcing the national policy in Dublin, Mr Donohoe also promised continued support for regional airports, an independent review into the regulatory regime for airport charges and a commitment to maintain Ireland’s attractiveness as a base for aircraft leasing.
Second runway for Dublin airport on cards as growth continues

Ignore the "may" in the first sentence of the Property Times article, Dublin Airport WILL need a second runway, and sooner rather than later given the rapid growth of the airport. Hopefully we're not talking about another Dart U/Metro North disaster were central govt can determine if this goes ahead or not.

DAA is fairly independent of the state now so fingers crossed they can push this through without having the fukkwits at the cabinet table suggesting something daft like upgrading Shannon and Cork to cope with further aviation demand.
 

Schuhart

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DAA is fairly independent of the state now so fingers crossed they can push this through without having the fukkwits at the cabinet table suggesting something daft like upgrading Shannon and Cork to cope with further aviation demand.
Can I attempt a summary of the policy document?

Dublin, with 75% of national air passenger traffic, is mentioned 78 times.

Cork, with 6% of national air passenger traffic, is mentioned 26 times.

Shannon, with 5% of national air passenger traffic, is mentioned 75 times.

I could go on about things like the silly recommendation that Shannon, while handling only 16% of national air cargo business, is a suitable location for a cargo hub. But the word count really says it all.
 

Roll_On

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The Netherlands and it's 17 million inhabitants have Schipol Airport in Amsterdam, a major hub. The other Dutch airports are the preserve of short hops and low cost carriers. This model has been fairly successful and everyone is catered to. Why is Ireland different?
 

Schuhart

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Why is Ireland different?
I think the answer is "mentality". Specifically, "mentality of the Shannon lobby".

Their mentality is well illustrated by their comical submission to the policy consultation process
http://www.shannonchamber.ie/wp-con...ion-Policy-for-Ireland-Report-–-July-2014.pdf

<...>A recent economic impact study commissioned by Shannon Airport Authority (a key Shannon Chamber member) points to an eleven-fold benefit in GDP terms accruing to a business passenger transiting to or from Shannon as opposed to transiting to or from Dublin. <...>
Shannon is magic. The same guy gets eleven times more spendy if he arrives in Shannon.

And they actually believe their own propaganda.
 

Roll_On

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OMG where are you when you arrive in Shannon? are you supposed to get a bus to the IFSC? laughable. At least in the Netherlands they recognise Amsterdam as their capital and centre of commerce.
 

Clanrickard

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Can I attempt a summary of the policy document?

Dublin, with 75% of national air passenger traffic, is mentioned 78 times.

Cork, with 6% of national air passenger traffic, is mentioned 26 times.

Shannon, with 5% of national air passenger traffic, is mentioned 75 times.

I could go on about things like the silly recommendation that Shannon, while handling only 16% of national air cargo business, is a suitable location for a cargo hub. But the word count really says it all.
Pathetic really. Get help with your anti-Shannon bias.

OMG where are you when you arrive in Shannon? are you supposed to get a bus to the IFSC? laughable. At least in the Netherlands they recognise Amsterdam as their capital and centre of commerce.
You are close to Galway and Limerick and a large chunk of the Irish population. Not everyone lives in Dublin. For the record we should have a second runway at Dublin and I'd definitely upgrade T1 to make it similarly as good as the new T2
 

Schuhart

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Pathetic really. Get help with your anti-Shannon bias.
I've no bias, I just draw attention to evidence of the huge bias in policy-making towards Shannon.

The folk with the bias are the ones in the Shannon lobby; read the section of fifth freedom rights in the Shannon Chamber submission, and observe how they still hanker after the Stopover.

But I'd agree, any rational person would support the further development of Dublin Airport. As we know, Dublin Airport delivers more tourists to the West of Ireland than Shannon.
 

Socratus O' Pericles

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Shannon is just one more subvention from Dublin to "the regions"-Dublin is great.petunia
 

Clanrickard

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I've no bias, I just draw attention to evidence of the huge bias in policy-making towards Shannon.

The folk with the bias are the ones in the Shannon lobby; read the section of fifth freedom rights in the Shannon Chamber submission, and observe how they still hanker after the Stopover.

But I'd agree, any rational person would support the further development of Dublin Airport. As we know, Dublin Airport delivers more tourists to the West of Ireland than Shannon.
True because it is a much bigger airport. However Shannon is growing strongly since the dead hand of the DAA has been lifted. The stopover is gone and will not be coming back.
 

Clanrickard

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Roll_On

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You are close to Galway and Limerick and a large chunk of the Irish population. Not everyone lives in Dublin. For the record we should have a second runway at Dublin and I'd definitely upgrade T1 to make it similarly as good as the new T2
The quote was

"A recent economic impact study commissioned by Shannon Airport Authority (a key Shannon Chamber member) points to an eleven-fold benefit in GDP terms accruing to a business passenger transiting to or from Shannon as opposed to transiting to or from Dublin."

Do you think that there are many "business passengers" going to Limerick? for what? Galway is a tourist town with little/no office market. Do you think that niche 'business trips' to these regions are 11 times more beneficial in GDP terms than similar trips to Dublin?

I'm sure there are plenty of pensioners from Iowa who will want to see the cliffs of "mow hair" but that's not what was quoted.
 

zakalwe1

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somebody touched upon this earlier, with a point about how checkin is changing given on-line ticketing and carry-on luggage.

do airlines sell the space in their hold, or do they sit empty? if so how possible is it to redesign aeroplanes to give greater carry-on luggage space?
 

top floor

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Shannon is not being subvented.
Was the independent Shannon given a "dowry" of the rental income from property held by the old SFADCO or other State body?
I cannot remember the detail.
But if so would that not be a "backdoor" subvention?
 

statsman

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The Netherlands and it's 17 million inhabitants have Schipol Airport in Amsterdam, a major hub. The other Dutch airports are the preserve of short hops and low cost carriers. This model has been fairly successful and everyone is catered to. Why is Ireland different?
I use both Shannon and Schipol regularly. Schipol has an excellent railway station and you can get there by train from pretty much anywhere else in the country. There's a train about every 5 minutes, and they run on time. I flew from Shannon to Boston and back last week on the leased Omni Air International Boeing 767 (a wide-bodied jet). Both flights were virtually full.
 

Ren84

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Can I attempt a summary of the policy document?

Dublin, with 75% of national air passenger traffic, is mentioned 78 times.

Cork, with 6% of national air passenger traffic, is mentioned 26 times.

Shannon, with 5% of national air passenger traffic, is mentioned 75 times.

I could go on about things like the silly recommendation that Shannon, while handling only 16% of national air cargo business, is a suitable location for a cargo hub. But the word count really says it all.
The pro-Shannon lot are like a cult who wield enormous influence over aviation policy to the detriment of real drivers of the Irish economy likre Dublin airport which is set to hit 25 million if not this year then next. The focus should be on the Dublin first and foremost with the only other airports supported Cork and Shannon. Public funding for all other airports should be pulled and told to look after themselves.

The Netherlands and it's 17 million inhabitants have Schipol Airport in Amsterdam, a major hub. The other Dutch airports are the preserve of short hops and low cost carriers. This model has been fairly successful and everyone is catered to. Why is Ireland different?
Because gombeens in the Wesht think they have a god given right to drive 10 minutes down the road and have an airport with transatlantic services available to them 24/7. Aviation has moved on somewhat since the 50's and the Shannon mob need to recognise this fact.
 

Roll_On

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I use both Shannon and Schipol regularly. Schipol has an excellent railway station and you can get there by train from pretty much anywhere else in the country. There's a train about every 5 minutes, and they run on time. I flew from Shannon to Boston and back last week on the leased Omni Air International Boeing 767 (a wide-bodied jet). Both flights were virtually full.
...ok. I'm not sure what you're trying to say.
 

statsman

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...ok. I'm not sure what you're trying to say.
Schiphol works as a single national hub because it's accessible. Dublin Airport isn't. It's a complete pain in the backside as far as public transport is concerned.

Shannon is doing well because there is demand for the flights. So much demand that the summer Boston route needed a bigger plane than the Boeing 757 that was being used earlier in the year.

Simple, really.
 

Roll_On

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So you're saying we could have a hub airport like schipol if we spent money integrating Dublin airport into the rail network. That is exactly my position also. But instead we've historically opted for spreading investment over a large number of airports, quite a silly policy really.
 


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