Poland seeks to tighten up its abortion laws

GDPR

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Currently there is a bill going through the Polish Parliament which seeks to further restrict its abortion laws which has the seal of approval of the Polish Catholic Church. At present the current laws date from 1993 which bans all terminations unless there was rape or incest, the pregnancy poses a health risk to the mother or the foetus is severely deformed, and these laws have the support of 74% of the Polish population which numbers approx. 38 million. According to national data there were 1,812 abortions in 2014, an increase of 500 from the previous year, with an estimated 80,000 a year either going abroad or illegally availing of an abortion.

The bill going through the parliament system would allow terminations only if the mother’s life is at risk and increase the maximum jail term for practitioners from two years to five. The move would also make mothers liable to prison sentence although the judge may waive this in their case. An additional bill also seeks to place limits on IVF, which involves fertilising an egg outside a woman’s body to produce an embryo that can then be implanted in her womb. The measure would make it illegal to freeze embryos, which its proponents say are human beings from the moment of fertilisation. It would also only allow women to fertilise one egg at a time, thus considerably reducing the chances of a successful pregnancy. Attempts from pro choice groups to pass a bill at the same time to liberalise the abortion laws were defeated.

My question to p.ie, is what are your thoughts on the existing and proposed abortion laws in Poland and are there any lessons to be learned or parallels with the Irish abortion debate? Thoughts?

Poland pushes ahead with near-total ban on abortion · TheJournal.ie
Poland Starts Work on Total Abortion Ban Amid Culture Clash - Bloomberg
 


Emily Davison

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No surprise they want to ban sex education as well. If this passes I guess they will move to ban the MAP and contraception too, so the result will be even more abortions or more illegal ones, not less. Very convent lay polish women, 80,000 go abroad for terminations. Much like good Catholic Ireland. I see they want women jailed too, wonder what Cora Sherlock thinks of that.
 

drummed

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No surprise they want to ban sex education as well. If this passes I guess they will move to ban the MAP and contraception too, so the result will be even more abortions or more illegal ones, not less. Very convent lay polish women, 80,000 go abroad for terminations. Much like good Catholic Ireland. I see they want women jailed too, wonder what Cora Sherlock thinks of that.
Poland's current demented regime have undermined the constitution and are proceeding to damage basic democratic rights in several ways. Sad days for Poland.
 

tsarbomb

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I disagree with the limits on IVF and the ban on the freezing of embryos that is being introduced.
 

mr_anderson

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A poll published this week by the Newsweek Polska magazine showed that 74% of Poles want to keep the existing law.
Stupid decision to go against such a majority.
If passed, it will only ever be short-lived.
 

Analyzer

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This will provide a Keynesian stimulus package to feminists in Poland as a result of George and the Open Sores society throwing money around to interfere in the running of a country.

Lazy people in Poland now have a career path - become one of George's dysfunctional servants.

It will pay better than a real job.
 

parentheses

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Poland's current demented regime have undermined the constitution and are proceeding to damage basic democratic rights in several ways. Sad days for Poland.
They hate Russia. I thought that would be enough for you.
 

drummed

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They hate Russia. I thought that would be enough for you.
They are a despicable collection of reactionaries. It is possible I despise Russians current leadership but never hate Russia.

You see the subtle difference there? Also, The Polish regime are insane if they imagine the plane crash was anything other than an accident. Putin had nothing to do with it whatever. It is also possible to think this while having no time for Putin. Paranoid people see enemies everywhere and particularly 'foreign agents'. Once a regime starts babbling about 'foreign agents' its time to look out for trouble ahead.

Things are complex aren't they sometimes?
 

GDPR

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No surprise they want to ban sex education as well. If this passes I guess they will move to ban the MAP and contraception too, so the result will be even more abortions or more illegal ones, not less. Very convent lay polish women, 80,000 go abroad for terminations. Much like good Catholic Ireland. I see they want women jailed too, wonder what Cora Sherlock thinks of that.
This should show to you though that history doesnt move in only direction.
 

Clanrickard

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Currently there is a bill going through the Polish Parliament which seeks to further restrict its abortion laws which has the seal of approval of the Polish Catholic Church. At present the current laws date from 1993 which bans all terminations unless there was rape or incest, the pregnancy poses a health risk to the mother or the foetus is severely deformed, and these laws have the support of 74% of the Polish population which numbers approx. 38 million. According to national data there were 1,812 abortions in 2014, an increase of 500 from the previous year, with an estimated 80,000 a year either going abroad or illegally availing of an abortion.

The bill going through the parliament system would allow terminations only if the mother’s life is at risk and increase the maximum jail term for practitioners from two years to five. The move would also make mothers liable to prison sentence although the judge may waive this in their case. An additional bill also seeks to place limits on IVF, which involves fertilising an egg outside a woman’s body to produce an embryo that can then be implanted in her womb. The measure would make it illegal to freeze embryos, which its proponents say are human beings from the moment of fertilisation. It would also only allow women to fertilise one egg at a time, thus considerably reducing the chances of a successful pregnancy. Attempts from pro choice groups to pass a bill at the same time to liberalise the abortion laws were defeated.

My question to p.ie, is what are your thoughts on the existing and proposed abortion laws in Poland and are there any lessons to be learned or parallels with the Irish abortion debate? Thoughts?

Poland pushes ahead with near-total ban on abortion · TheJournal.ie
Poland Starts Work on Total Abortion Ban Amid Culture Clash - Bloomberg
Well done Poland. Bardzo dobrze.
 

drummed

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Well done Poland. Bardzo dobrze.
Temporary measure to deflect from the ongoing attack on basic rights including the constitution being undertaken. Just a populist move to see will it bolster flagging public support in the light of endless other dramas and a deeply cynical one at that.

Using this as Trojan horse to force other sinister policies through parliament is despicable. It would be one thing if the regime even had any principles on the topic which of course they don't. Pure deflection and blatant manipulation. Poland is going nowhere good. The way in which to decide such important matters would be via a referendum but these sort regimes have no time for democracy.
 

Gurdiev77

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Currently there is a bill going through the Polish Parliament which seeks to further restrict its abortion laws which has the seal of approval of the Polish Catholic Church. At present the current laws date from 1993 which bans all terminations unless there was rape or incest, the pregnancy poses a health risk to the mother or the foetus is severely deformed, and these laws have the support of 74% of the Polish population which numbers approx. 38 million. According to national data there were 1,812 abortions in 2014, an increase of 500 from the previous year, with an estimated 80,000 a year either going abroad or illegally availing of an abortion.

The bill going through the parliament system would allow terminations only if the mother’s life is at risk and increase the maximum jail term for practitioners from two years to five. The move would also make mothers liable to prison sentence although the judge may waive this in their case. An additional bill also seeks to place limits on IVF, which involves fertilising an egg outside a woman’s body to produce an embryo that can then be implanted in her womb. The measure would make it illegal to freeze embryos, which its proponents say are human beings from the moment of fertilisation. It would also only allow women to fertilise one egg at a time, thus considerably reducing the chances of a successful pregnancy. Attempts from pro choice groups to pass a bill at the same time to liberalise the abortion laws were defeated.

My question to p.ie, is what are your thoughts on the existing and proposed abortion laws in Poland and are there any lessons to be learned or parallels with the Irish abortion debate? Thoughts?

Poland pushes ahead with near-total ban on abortion · TheJournal.ie
Poland Starts Work on Total Abortion Ban Amid Culture Clash - Bloomberg
seems extreme , given that their laws are already restrictive and supported by 74% of the population.
 

Cruimh

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Temporary measure to deflect from the ongoing attack on basic rights including the constitution being undertaken. Just a populist move to see will it bolster flagging public support in the light of endless other dramas and a deeply cynical one at that.

Using this as Trojan horse to force other sinister policies through parliament is despicable. It would be one thing if the regime even had any principles on the topic which of course they don't. Pure deflection and blatant manipulation. Poland is going nowhere good. The way in which to decide such important matters would be via a referendum but these sort regimes have no time for democracy.
Regimes like this in the EU help validate Brexit.
 

darkhorse

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Fair play to them
Instead of blindly following the example of the UK, we should be looking to Poland as to how a modern country legislates for this disgusting practise
 

drummed

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Regimes like this in the EU help validate Brexit.
Nope. Regimes like this one have been told repeatedly that their actions are undermining basic principles of the EU. They have been sanctioned and will soon face further actions as will Hungary. The EU is one of the few international organisations available which can have a restrictive influence and prevent such regimes going to extremes.

The key problem is a small clique of localised reactionaries who want to take Poland back to an imaginary time which never existed (a sort of Taidhg Disneyland of nationalism and pious isolation) and the only thing stopping them is the fact they have signed EU treaties promising to respect the constitution and abide by basic democratic norms.

In fact, Brexit, paves the way for an extreme UKIP (or some other party) style nationalist government of Polish/Hungarian likeness who are free to proceed on a religious/nationalist/isolationist agenda with no restrictions. The very concept of abandoning international ties and standards is exactly what Poland is currently all about, the exact same impulse as the Brexit crowd. Based on the same delusions of past glories long gone and an inflated sense of their own place in the world which is being attacked by the usual 'foreign agents'.

I see a great deal of common ground between this Polish regime and the Brexit fans. It has the same basic features.

Recall that Poland's favourite enemy apart from Putin is the EU which it spends almost as much time complaining about as Vlad. Overall, I feel Poland is a good example of why exactly to stay in the EU - To act as a check on these sort of regimes in an international framework where countries can act together to oppose these sort of measures.
 
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drummed

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Fair play to them
Instead of blindly following the example of the UK, we should be looking to Poland as to how a modern country legislates for this disgusting practise

Leaving aside the actual specific topic for a moment, welcoming such moves from the current Polish regime is like welcoming the roof collapsing in your house as it provides that extra light you always wanted in the kitchen. Its a short sighted and cynical measure designed for purposes which have little to do with abortion and everything to do with populism. As I said, it would be one thing if the regime had any actual genuine principles on the matter. But they have no principles on any topic really.
 

darkhorse

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Leaving aside the actual specific topic for a moment, welcoming such moves from the current Polish regime is like welcoming the roof collapsing in your house as it provides that extra light you always wanted in the kitchen. Its a short sighted and cynical measure designed for purposes which have little to do with abortion and everything to do with populism. As I said, it would be one thing if the regime had any actual genuine principles on the matter. But they have no principles on any topic really.

Tightening up abortion laws is never a bad thing regardless of the motivation
Lots of young lives will be saved - that's the main thing
 

GDPR

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Tightening up abortion laws is never a bad thing regardless of the motivation
Lots of young lives will be saved - that's the main thing
I'm not so sure that this will save young lives, given the figures I've quoted in the OP, which would seem to be reliable figures with a little over 2% of the attributed abortions in a year, occurring in accordance with current law in Poland or little under 98% or 78,000 plus of annual Polish abortions occur illegally or in foreign countries like Slovakia.
 


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