Police violence in Catalonia

McTell

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 16, 2012
Messages
7,300
Twitter
No
Still nada from the licence fee crowd..... top 44 stories this morn



Along with the cute lost sheep and dog stories, there are some iberian reports, like.....


Spanish police rescued by 'smugglers' they were chasing


Parachutist hits pole at Spanish national day parade
 


Barroso

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2011
Messages
4,521
At a time like this, it's worthwhile looking at what the Spanish police are likely to do to people they arrest in political cases.
lasrepublicas.com have done a bit of digging, and found this case - old now, but doubtless the same policemen are still around, or they have passed on their methods to a new generation.
For those that don't have time to click or don't know Spanish, it's about a young Basque lad who was arrested back in 2001, taken to Madrid and tortured there.
Here's a before-and-after photo of him:
73E80CCC-BDBB-40E6-86B1-C9C2C59BE6BE-600x375.jpg
 
Last edited:

Barroso

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2011
Messages
4,521
A Spanish woman writer (ie not Catalan) who lives in Barcelona has won a Spanish national prize for literature.
1571814794_121622_1571820924_noticia_fotograma.jpg
According to El País, she says that she's happy to see rubbish containers burning as she's tired of all the tourist cafes in the city.
She believes that the violence the city has seen was caused by the police and not the people.
"La violencia es la de la policía; lo único que se puede esperar de la policía. Es un cuerpo violento ante el que solo cabe el sometimiento o la autodefensa"
"It is the police who cause the violence, you can expect nothing else from them. They are a violent body and the only response to them is submission or self-defence".
 

Barroso

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2011
Messages
4,521
The Council of Europe's Commissioner for Human Rights seems to have taken a very dim view of the situation in Catalonia, specifically the many attacks on journalists on this occasion, but not ignoring the attacks on demonstrators by police.
S/he is as neutral as the situation allows, stating that both police and demonstrators attacked journalists, but they pointedly requested that the police investigate ALL incidents. In other words, that they investigate the attacks by police as well as those by demonstrators; and they very pointedly mention the attack on and arrest of a photojournalist working for El País who was attacked by the police, essentially for catching them on film beating up someone else.
Here's a surprisingly frank quote:
... several accredited journalists, wearing press visibility jackets, have reportedly experienced violent behaviour at the hands of police officers in different cities of Catalonia. Some journalists indicate that they were beaten up or had their equipment broken, others that they were hit by foam bullets shot by the police. I also take note of the arrest of a press photographer in the evening of Friday 18 October in Barcelona, while he was reportedly taking pictures of a police operation.
Further on, referring to rubber and foam bullets, s/he says the following:
As already stressed by my predecessor in a letter to the Spanish authorities of 4 October 2017, the use of such weapons presents a clear danger for the safety of demonstrators. Because of their imprecise and indiscriminate effect, they should not be used against large numbers of persons, including assemblies gathering large numbers of peaceful protesters.
Therefore, I urge the Spanish authorities to reconsider the use of these weapons in operations aimed at managing public demonstrations. They should also investigate and adequately sanction all reported instances of abusive use of force by law enforcement officials.
This is not good news for the Spanish authorities. But within Catalonia, there is a growing belief that the Spanish state has decided to use whatever measures are required to bring the Catalans to obedience. All that is holding them back is the hope that the Catalans will be the first to resort to violence, so that having pushed the Catalans beyond the limit, they can then come in holding the high moral ground, and then annihilate whoever they wish.
 

Barroso

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2011
Messages
4,521
A demonstration in support of Catalonia's right to decide was held in Valladolid last Thursday, 19 Oct.
Valladolid is in deepest conservative Spain - the town of ex-Prime Minister Aznar. Brave people indeed to come out in public to support Catalonia in this part of the country.
Note the flag used by the speakers - the flag of the Spanish Republic. This flag has become more and more common in Spain in recent years, given the level of corruption in the PP and its two wingmen, C's and Vox - the modern and traditional faces of Spanish fascism respectively.
 

McTell

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 16, 2012
Messages
7,300
Twitter
No
//
Note the flag used by the speakers - the flag of the Spanish Republic. This flag has become more and more common in Spain in recent years, given the level of corruption in the PP and its two wingmen, C's and Vox - the modern and traditional faces of Spanish fascism respectively.
It's fair to say that these are the lefties of valladolid.

Probably best for them to keep the focus on catalunya.
 

soubresauts

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 2, 2007
Messages
3,232
A Spanish woman writer (ie not Catalan) who lives in Barcelona has won a Spanish national prize for literature...

She believes that the violence the city has seen was caused by the police and not the people.

"It is the police who cause the violence, you can expect nothing else from them. They are a violent body and the only response to them is submission or self-defence".
Well, I saw credible reports that there are hundreds of thugs operating in a highly organized way on the streets of Barcelona. Not only do they attack the police with molotov cocktails, steel balls, paving stones etc., they destroy as much of the street furniture and public property as they can, loot shops, and terrorize local residents. Do you know how many policemen ended up in hospital?

You seem to think that the police should just stand back and use loudspeakers to implore the thugs "Please don't do that!"

If you think there is a coherent, organized, just movement that is going to achieve Catalan independence through peaceful means in the foreseeable future, you are deluded. Most of the politicians, in and outside Catalonia, are wasters, and the place is going to be a political mess for years to come.
 

Barroso

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2011
Messages
4,521
Well, I saw credible reports that there are hundreds of thugs operating in a highly organized way on the streets of Barcelona. Not only do they attack the police with molotov cocktails, steel balls, paving stones etc., they destroy as much of the street furniture and public property as they can, loot shops, and terrorize local residents. Do you know how many policemen ended up in hospital?

You seem to think that the police should just stand back and use loudspeakers to implore the thugs "Please don't do that!"

If you think there is a coherent, organized, just movement that is going to achieve Catalan independence through peaceful means in the foreseeable future, you are deluded. Most of the politicians, in and outside Catalonia, are wasters, and the place is going to be a political mess for years to come.
Yes, I do know how many police ended up in hospital.
3 or 4 were treated, one was kept in - he was the victim of friendly fire, when a rubber or foam bullet hit him from very close range.

If you have links to videos of the
molotov cocktails, steel balls, paving stones etc., they destroy as much of the street furniture and public property as they can, loot shops, and terrorize local residents
, please post them. There are literally hundreds of videos online of police violence against demonstrators, I have posted just a few of them.

If you think there is a coherent, organized, just movement that is going to achieve Catalan independence through peaceful means in the foreseeable future, you are deluded.
I am very aware that the coherent, organised just movement looking to achieve Catalan independence is very unlikely to do so peacefully, any more than our own state managed to. The Spanish state is hellbent on trying to create ETA mark II in Catalonia, so that they can send in the troops with international approval. They may well succeed in pushing some Catalans to do so; however, for the present, all reports about Catalan leaders that I have heard have them insisting on the use of peaceful means, and the demonstrations have generally been well-mannered. When they have not, it has in all cases that I can identify been due to police attacks on demonstrators.
Most of the politicians, in and outside Catalonia, are wasters, and the place is going to be a political mess for years to come.
I'm not sure who you are referring to, but if you think that the movement is led by politicians, you are the deluded one.
The "procés" as they call it is a grassroots movement, and it is the grassroots who have forced the politicians to stand up and listen - not the other way around. The actual movement doesn't have leaders, and imprisoning "leaders" who were essentially forced by their voters to get things moving won't stop the process.
You hardly think that the first independence vote back in 2009 in the town of Arenys de Munt was led by politicians?
 

Barroso

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2011
Messages
4,521
There were demonstrations in support of the Catalan process in 7 Galician cities on Friday.
IMG20191023WA0078.jpg

In one of those cities - A Coruña - a man attacked a woman because some of the products in her shop came from Catalonia. See the report here. He also tried to rob her phone as she photographed him.
 
Last edited:

Barroso

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2011
Messages
4,521
It seems that some Spanish imperialists, like this member of Ciudadanos, have difficulties with reality.
He says that for him, both Portugal and Cuba are Spanish.
"Para mí Portugal es España. Y Cuba es España".
I wonder how he feels about the rest of Latin America?
 

Barroso

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2011
Messages
4,521
Well, I saw credible reports that there are hundreds of thugs operating in a highly organized way on the streets of Barcelona. Not only do they attack the police with molotov cocktails, steel balls, paving stones etc., they destroy as much of the street furniture and public property as they can, loot shops, and terrorize local residents. Do you know how many policemen ended up in hospital?
I've been doing some research on the interwebby, and came across this video on youtube.
If you watch the section between 9:10 to 9:20, it specifically addresses this bit of your post.

Oh, and by the way, the speaker is Puigdemont's main lawyer. Last week he was called in to make a statement to an investigating judge, in a money-laundering case. A typical intimidatory move by the Spanish authorities which didn't go down well in the international legal sphere.
The Spanish have form on this - they imprisoned him years back when he was defending some Basque nationalists. It looks like they want to do the same again. This time it will be a little more difficult, as doing so would have international repercussions. However, I'd be unsurprised if they imprison him when the international situation allows.
 

Barroso

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2011
Messages
4,521
Not all "thugs" are in the direct pay of the Spanish government.
In the city of Mataró, up the coast from Barcelona, the Municipal Police is a separate, local, police force belonging to the city itself. There are 173 in the organisation, and 115 of them form part of a whatsap group.
According to El Periódico newspaper (close to the Socialist party, and thus to the Madrid government), not at all in favour of the regionalists and even less the independence movement, several of the police posted very nasty messages in the group.
One, writing about a recent pro-independence demonstration, wrote: "Give me a couple of machineguns and the problem is gone. Haha. A burst of fire and they run like rabbits."
“Dadme un par de metralletas y se acaba el problema. Jaja. Una ráfaga y corren como conejos”
 

toughbutfair

Well-known member
Joined
May 28, 2009
Messages
10,234
The protests are not for independence, or even for a referendum. The protests are against the jailing of elected politicians who organized the referendum. You can be against an independent Catalonia and still join this protest.
 

USER1234

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Messages
9,546
The protests are not for independence, or even for a referendum. The protests are against the jailing of elected politicians who organized the referendum. You can be against an independent Catalonia and still join this protest.
While police violence cannot be justifed, the politicians were rightly jailed for trying to subvert the Spanish constitution they swore to uphold by holding an illegal referendum, (which they knew was illegal beforehand) and ilegally using public funds to do so
 
Last edited:

Barroso

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2011
Messages
4,521
While police violence cannot be justifed, the politicians were rightly jailed for trying to subvert the Spanish constitution they swore to uphold by holding an illegal referendum, (which they knew was illegal beforehand) and ilegally using public funds to do so
I wonder how you feel about the first Dáil and the war of independence.
Illegally setting up a parliament, and fighting a war and killing people to achieve their aims must all have been pretty illegal.
BTW, are you sure that the Catalan politicians had sworn to uphold the Spanish constitution? I think that particular oath is only for the Spanish parliament in Madrid.
Regarding police violence, how do you feel about the blow to the head in this video? Soubresauts might like to comment too.
 

USER1234

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Messages
9,546
I wonder how you feel about the first Dáil and the war of independence.
Illegally setting up a parliament, and fighting a war and killing people to achieve their aims must all have been pretty illegal.
BTW, are you sure that the Catalan politicians had sworn to uphold the Spanish constitution? I think that particular oath is only for the Spanish parliament in Madrid.
Regarding police violence, how do you feel about the blow to the head in this video? Soubresauts might like to comment too.
1) there are huges differences between our fight for independence and Catalonia, the main one being the people of Catalonia voted to join the spanish state in a free and fair referendum, which included the law which dont allow individual areas have such referendums, it must be an all spain referendum to be legally valid

2) yes i am sure

3) I'v already stated i dont support police violence.
 

toughbutfair

Well-known member
Joined
May 28, 2009
Messages
10,234
1) there are huges differences between our fight for independence and Catalonia, the main one being the people of Catalonia voted to join the spanish state in a free and fair referendum, which included the law which dont allow individual areas have such referendums, it must be an all spain referendum to be legally valid

2) yes i am sure

3) I'v already stated i dont support police violence.
If the law doesn’t allow you to be free, you must break the law.
 


New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top